The work of a number of the UK's leading scientists has been recognised in the New Year Honours.

Prof Shankar Balasubramanian, a chemist from the University of Cambridge, has received a knighthood.
Prof Ottoline Leyser, director of the Sainsbury Laboratory, and Prof Amanda Fisher from Imperial College London were both made dames.
Prof Jane Francis, who has led the British Antarctic Survey since 2013, becomes a dame, also.
The newly opened Francis Crick Institute in London can now boast a knighthood for its director of research, Prof James Smith.
And Prof Sir Alec Jeffreys is appointed to the very select group of outstanding achievers who hold the title Companion of Honour. It was Sir Alec's research in the 1980s that led to "genetic fingerprinting".
IBM Research director Dr David Watson and Royal Horticultural Society director-general Sue Biggs become CBEs.
Prof Balasubramanian is an internationally recognised authority in the field of nucleic acids, which are essential for all forms of life and are responsible for holding and transmitting genetic information.
His work is considered to be at the forefront of research in the battle against cancer. He is also a senior group leader at the Cancer Research UK Cambridge Institute.
Prof Ottoline Leyser receives her damehood in recognition for her services to plant science, as well as for her work in equality and diversity within science.
Her work focuses on plant hormones and plant development. She was awarded the Royal Society's Rosalind Franklin award in 2007.
Another researcher to be made a dame is Prof Amanda Fisher, from Imperial College London, for her services to science. Her work focuses on cellular biology within humans. and she heads the college's Institute of Clinical Sciences.
Sue Biggs, director-general of the Royal Horticultural Society, becomes a Commander of the British Empire (CBE). Each year, the society hosts a number of flagship shows to promote the sector, including the Chelsea and the Tatton Park flower shows.
Other scientists to be made CBEs in the New Year Honours list include Prof Michael Depledge, chairman of Environmental and Human Health at the University of Exeter Medical School, and John Pyle, professor of chemistry at the University of Cambridge.


A plaque is to be unveiled in Glasgow to honour a pioneering Scottish astronomer.

Alexander Wilson was a surgeon, type-founder, glassblower and meteorologist before being appointed to run the Old College Observatory in Glasgow in 1757.
Three years later he became Glasgow University's first Regius Professor of Practical Astronomy.
Among his achievements was an early attempt to understand the nature and structure of sunspots.
When observing the sunspots at the edge of the Sun he saw them as valleys or caverns in the surface.
We now know these to be anomalies caused by the Sun's magnetic field.
Wilson speculated that the Sun's structure had a hotter outer layer covering a dark globe.
That interpretation was accepted for over a hundred years and his observation that sunspots looked like caverns is still referred to by solar researchers as the Wilson Effect.
The blue plaque from the Institute of Physics Scotland is to be unveiled at Glasgow University's observatory in the west of the city.
It honours him for his work on sunspots and for his theories on gravity.
Wilson proposed that gravity was "what hinders the fixed stars from falling upon one another" as the Universe rotated around its centre.
That was true for the Universe Wilson knew - our home galaxy - because it rotates around a black hole.
Gravity is not, however, holding the rest of the universe together.  It continues to expand but the equipment to observe this was developed long after Wilson's day.
Alexander Wilson was born in 1714, the son of the town clerk of St Andrews.
He graduated with an MA from the university there when he was just 18 years old.
Then came spells as an apprentice surgeon, skilled glassblower and a creator and caster of elegant typefaces.
When he went to work at Glasgow University he took his type-founding business with him.
His other achievements include the first measurements of temperatures at different levels in the atmosphere by using thermometers carried on kites.
He was also able to test how well his solar observation instruments worked by building an "artificial sun" in his laboratory.
Other honours include a crater on the Moon bearing his name.
His son Patrick succeeded him to the Regius Professor's chair in 1784.
One important safety note: Alexander Wilson did not observe the Sun and its spots by looking directly at it, either with the naked eye or through a telescope.
To look at it that way will cause severe eye damage.
Instead he projected an image of the Sun's disc onto a white surface, looking at it indirectly.
Almost three centuries on - unless we own equipment specially designed for looking at the Sun - that is still the best way to do it.


Prosecution and conviction rates for drivers who cause fatal road crashes have fallen sharply - at the same time as police forces have lost thousands of traffic officers.

Figures shared with 5 live Investigates by the charity RoadPeace reveal a 23% drop in prosecutions in England and Wales in the five years to 2015.
In the same period the number of convictions fell by nearly 30 per cent.
The charity blames a reduction in the number of specialist police officers.
The number of road officers in England and Wales fell by nearly 40 per cent from 7,100 in 2005 to 4,350 in 2014.
The Department for Transport said: "Britain has some of the safest roads in the world and in 2015 we had the second lowest total of road fatalities on record.
"We are determined to do more and we've recently announced tougher penalties for those caught using a mobile phone while driving.
"We have also tightened the law to make it easier to prosecute drink-drivers and drug-drivers."
Five people die on the UK's roads in the UK every day but campaigners say these incidents are often seen as unfortunate accidents and prosecutions are few and far between.
John Thompson's 27-year-old son Jake died from head injuries in 2011 after he was hit on a pedestrian crossing in Bristol by a lorry travelling at 38mph in a 30mph zone.
The family had to fight to persuade Avon and Somerset Police to re-open an investigation into Jake's death after the Crown Prosecution Service said there wasn't enough evidence to bring charges against the driver.
John is highly critical of the original investigation.
He said: "We thought straight after the crash there would've been statements taken. It was about a month before the witnesses were interviewed, the phones weren't checked, the interview of the driver didn't take place until about two or three months afterwards and the interview failed to meet the standards which you would expect.
"There hadn't been a proper investigation. They hadn't followed up on certain key leads like CCTV evidence; they hadn't checked the driver's medical history".
When the case was eventually taken to court in 2014, it was thrown out, with the judge ruling that there was no case to answer.
"I felt hurt, disappointed", said John.
"It was almost as if Jake's life had been lost but there were no consequences as far as the legal system was concerned".
A spokesman for Avon and Somerset Police said: "After the collision involving Jake we carried out an investigation which, when reviewed, was found to have fallen below standards. Following a complaint raised by Mr and Mrs Thompson we recognised and accepted the need to revisit these matters.
"As a result, the investigation was re-opened and we renewed our appeal for witnesses, reviewed the information we already had and looked to see if any new lines of enquiry had presented themselves in the interim period. Improvements have since been made in respect of how we approach these types of investigations."
RoadPeace believes that the declining number of prosecutions for careless and dangerous driving reflects the police's increasing reluctance to investigate fatal collisions.
"Police are not evaluated on their collision investigation performance. Hence it is not a priority," said Amy Aeron Thomas from RoadPeace.
"There are no national standards for collision investigation, not even for fatal crashes. Guidance exists but has been weakened in recent years. It is not clear how police evaluate their investigation effectiveness, or if they even do evaluate this."
The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety (PACTS) - a charity which advises MPs on road safety - wants the government to create a UK road collision investigation branch.
This would be similar to existing organisations which investigate air and rail crashes, and would have the remit of reducing the number of road casualties.
Steve Barry, an Assistant Chief Constable at Sussex Police and the National Police Chief's Council lead for collision investigations, says he doesn't believe that the reduction in the number of traffic police has impacted on the number of prosecutions and convictions.
He supports the idea of a national investigation branch but says there is a now a very different approach to road safety.
"It's less focused on enforcement and prosecution, it's more focused on what is in the public interest, in terms of educating the public, diverting them away from the court.
"We need to learn how to keep ourselves safe on the roads, as oppose to prosecuting our way into a situation of better safety.
"The balance is between justice and public interest, or learning, and that's a really difficult balance to explain to a [bereaved] family, but what we have to try and explain is there is a balance between justice, for the victims, justice for the families, at the same time of getting as much evidence, as much learning out of it that informs how we keep other people safe on the roads in future."
5 live Investigates is on BBC Radio 5 live, 2 April at 11:00 GMT - catch up on BBC iPlayer Radio.
Have you got something you want investigating? We want to hear from you. Email 5liveinvestigates@bbc.co.uk


Clan fighting has left at least 20 people dead in the south Libyan town of Sabha after an incident with a monkey, according to local reports.

A pet monkey reportedly assaulted a schoolgirl, leading her family to seek revenge. Three men were killed along with the animal in initial clashes.
Days of fighting followed between the Awlad Suleiman and Guedadfa clans.
Casualties may be greater as the death toll is reportedly for the Awlad Suleiman group only.
Reports also suggest tanks, rockets, mortars and other heavy weapons were used in the fighting, in which at least 50 people were also wounded.
The three men reported as having the monkey at the time of the assault were from the Guedadfa community, the same as the late Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi.
Some reports say the monkey may have pulled off the girl's headscarf as well as scratching and biting her.
The relationship between the two communities is said to have been strained for many years.
Sabha is a hub for trafficking in migrants and arms in Libya's often neglected south.
Libya has been wracked by conflict since Col Gaddafi was ousted in 2011.


A court in India's Tamil Nadu state has asked why the body of former chief minister J Jayalalitha cannot be exhumed for investigation.

The Madras high court said the "media has raised doubts" about the cause of her death on 5 December, and "the truth should be revealed".
She was admitted to a local hospital for more than three months, but little information was given about her health.
Jayalalitha was one of India's most charismatic and enigmatic politicians.
Sasikala: The 'new mother' of Tamil Nadu politics
Obituary: Jayaram Jayalalitha
The two-judge bench was hearing a petition, seeking an investigation into the former chief minister's death.
"We also saw in the newspapers that the chief minister was recovering, and that she was eating, signing papers and even conducting meetings. And then suddenly she was dead," The Times of India quoted the judges as saying.
"At least after her death now, the truth should be revealed," they added.
The next hearing is due to take place on 9 January.
Jayalalitha's close aide Sasikala Natarajan, who was with her in her final days in the hospital, has taken over as the chief of her AIADMK party.


Wigan half-back Sam Powell will miss Saturday's World Club Challenge match against Sydney Roosters after sustaining an ankle injury.

Powell, 21, featured 16 times last year and played in the season opener loss to Huddersfield, and a warm-up match against New Zealand Warriors.
"It is a big blow for Sam, who has worked really hard in pre-season," said head coach Shaun Wane.
"But with his character I'm sure he will bounce back stronger."
The full extent of Powell's injury will be assessed when Warriors return home after the game in Sydney.


Jonathan Sexton said he had suffered no ill-effects despite needing stitches following another bang to his head in Ireland's Six Nations win over France.

Sexton was named man of the match after kicking 15 points in Ireland's 18-11 victory as he made his return to rugby after a 12-week concussion lay-off.
"It was just a glancing blow," said Sexton of his clash of heads with burly France centre Mathieu Bastareaud.
"I just needed a couple of stitches but I felt fine after it."
In the run-up to Saturday's game, former French international Laurent Benezech had described the Racing Metro fly-half's inclusion in the Ireland team as a "big mistake", while a number of the France side hinted that Sexton could be targeted in the Aviva Stadium game.
The debate over Sexton's selection led the Irish Rugby Football Union to release a strongly-worded statement on Friday night, defending the Dubliner's inclusion.
For his part, the 29-year-old said that he had attempted to ignore the press coverage.
"I tried to stay away from most of it," said Sexton, who was briefly replaced by Ian Madigan while he got the stitches. "There was a little bit of talk in the press but you can't do anything about that.
"I needed to concentrate on my performance. I didn't get off to the best start with a couple of miscommunications and bad passes but we've plenty to improve on and that's a great place to be."
Ireland were forced to defend desperately in the closing stages as France produced intense late pressure after Romain Taofifenua's 70th-minute try.
"That's a very good French team," insisted Sexton.
"We made it hard for ourselves as usual and we dug deep at the end.
"We're delighted. We've got a lot to improve on and we've got a big match here in two weeks against England."
Ireland coach Joe Schmidt said that Sexton had exhibited no signs of concussion despite the head clash.
"He was replaced because of the blood, not because of any concussion," added Schmidt.
The Ireland coach revealed that number eight Jamie Heaslip was in a "lot of pain" following the game after appearing to be kneed in the back by France lock Pascal Pape.
The France second row was sin-binned by referee Wayne Barnes following the incident and Schmidt said that he expected the footage to be looked at "by people who make decisions".
Heaslip had to be replaced by Jordi Murphy after the incident.
Schmidt added that his team had performed an "admirable job" in holding on to win despite France's second-half pressure.
"They have some of the biggest humans I've seen playing rugby," he said.
"When Bastareaud and (Uini) Atonio and Taofifenua started to give them that go-forward, it's very difficult to stop them.
"We just about survived and we can be really proud of the effort we put it."


Theresa May's political rivals lined up to criticise her for not taking part in a seven-way general election debate.

She was accused of lacking "guts" and of "running away from the debate" during the 90 minute BBC TV event.
Home Secretary Amber Rudd, who represented the Conservatives, said "part of being a good leader is having a good, strong team".
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn did not directly attack Mrs May's absence as he clashed with Ms Rudd over cuts.
The prime minister ruled out appearing on televised debates soon after calling the election.
She said on Wednesday that she preferred "taking questions and meeting people" on the campaign trail rather than "squabbling" with other politicians.
At one point, Mr Corbyn asked "where is Theresa May, what happened to her?" as he defended his own leadership abilities.
But he engaged in a series of clashes with Ms Rudd over the squeeze on living standards and cuts to welfare as the debate heated up.
Mr Corbyn told her: "Have you been to a food bank? Have you seen people sleeping around our stations?
"Have you seen the levels of poverty that exist because of your government's conscious decisions on benefits?"
The Labour leader also highlighted his plans to end the public sector pay cap and introduce a Â£10 an hour living wage by 2020.
He said Labour would "ensure our manufacturing industry and jobs are protected", and he was "absolutely sure" his spending plans added up.
At the end of the debate, some of the audience I spoke to were clearly pretty fed up that Theresa May hadn't turned up.
In contrast, they were pleased that Jeremy Corbyn had shown his face. For him, that decision seems to have been a tactical win. If elections really are a game, he took the points today.
But whether his performance will have the same impact on a wider audience, particularly undecided voters, is a different matter.
In the spin room, where the press were watching and senior politicians were trying to claim victory for their competitor, it didn't feel like a wake or a celebration for any party in particular.
None of the participants achieved a big breakthrough moment. But nor, crucially, did any of them have a cringing disaster.
By polling day, tonight's event may be remembered more for the day that Mrs May didn't show, than anything that was actually said on the platform.
Ms Rudd said the "squabbling" on display during the debate showed "the coalition of chaos in action".
She said Mrs May had the strength to "take us through Brexit" and a vote for anyone else is a vote for Mr Corbyn "and that coalition".
Lib Dem leader Tim Farron launched a string of attacks on Mrs May. He said: "Where do you think Theresa May is tonight?
"Take a look out your window. She might be out there sizing up your house to pay for your social care."
Green party co-leader Caroline Lucas said the "first rule of leadership is to show up".
She added: "You don't say it's the most important election of our lifetime and not be bothered to show up."
Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood said Mrs May was not there because "her campaign of soundbites is falling apart".
SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson accused Mrs May of not having the "guts" to attend the debate, as he attacked Ms Rudd over cuts to the winter fuel allowance for pensioners in England.
Ms Rudd said the Conservatives had "made a clear decision to protect the poorest in our society," adding that "winter fuel payments won't be available for billionaires" under her party's policy.
She dismissed her rivals' claims as "fanciful", saying they offered nothing but "bluff, bravado and tempting, shiny election promises".
"The only question to consider is who should be in No 10 to steer Britain to a brighter future?" Ms Rudd asked.
"Jeremy Corbyn with his money tree, wish list manifesto and no plan for Brexit or Theresa May with her record of delivery."
The panel also clashed over immigration.
The Green Party's co-leader Caroline Lucas said she wanted to "make the case" for freedom of movement across the EU and the ability of people to be able to "live and love" in other countries.
"The Britain I love is a confident outward-looking country," she said, which well knows the "benefits" of migration.
The UKIP leader Paul Nuttall denied claims he was demonising immigrants, but said: "We have to get the population under control."
The panel members also debated security and terrorism, the NHS, and US President Donald Trump's decision to pull the US out of climate change agreements.
Labour said for weeks that Mr Corbyn would not attend the debate unless Mrs May was there - but he announced at lunchtime that he would take part.
He criticised the Tories for what he called "a stage-managed arms-length campaign".
Taking questions during a campaign visit in Bath, Mrs May said Mr Corbyn "seems to be paying far more attention to how many appearances on telly he's doing, and he ought to be paying a little more attention to thinking about Brexit negotiations".
Mrs May said she had taken on Mr Corbyn every week during Prime Minister's Questions, adding that it was "so important" to be taking questions from voters.
"That's why I've been doing that up and round the country," she added.
The debate, moderated by Mishal Husain, was the latest in a series of special broadcasts before the general election on 8 June.
This includes two Question Time shows - one on 2 June featuring Mrs May and Mr Corbyn appearing separately, and a second on 4 June with Mr Farron and SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon.
Andrew Neil has been carrying out a series of interviews with party leaders.
Get news from the BBC in your inbox, each weekday morning


There was no need to call off an SAS selection exercise when a candidate suffered heat illness, an Army medic has told an inquest.

Three men died after overheating on the course on the "boiling hot" day in the Brecon Beacons in July 2013.
But the medic said a candidate, 2P, who suffered heat illness earlier in the day "recovered quite quickly".
L/Cpl Craig Roberts died on the course, L/Cpl Edward Maher and Cpl James Dunsby died in hospital.
All three men had overheated in temperatures of 27C (80.6F) on what was the hottest day of the year, near Pen Y Fan.
Jonathan Hall QC, representing the Ministry of Defence, asked the medic - known as 1H to protect his identity - whether the situation involving 2P was one where he thought the whole exercise should have been called off.
"I don't believe so, his observations were all OK," 1H replied.
"Apart from the confusion he recovered quite quickly, so I don't think the whole operation should have been stopped because of 2P.
"He (2P) said he recalled not knowing what his job was, but then he told me what he did for a living.
"I would say he recovered fully in about 10 minutes.
"He was able to take on water orallyâ€¦ I think we gave him a flapjack which helped with his sugars, all his observations were fine.
"We just cooled him down in the back of the ambulance and he was fine."
Soldier 2P told the inquest previously he was "a bit perturbed" by the way the checkpoints - designed to check on the welfare of candidates - were run.
2P said with hindsight, different clothing and more water stops may have improved conditions for candidates that day.
The inquest continues.


Wales were beaten by Ukraine as some players' hopes of securing squad places for Euro 2016 appeared to fade in Kiev.

Media playback is not supported on this device
Wales started brightly but trailed at half-time as Andriy Yarmolenko seized on slack defending to score with Ukraine's only shot on target.
Despite continuing to dominate possession in the second half, Wales offered precious little in attack.
This was their last chance to impress boss Chris Coleman before he names his squad for the summer finals in France.
The majority of the 23-man party will have already been decided, though Coleman may have been disappointed by the failure of fringe players such as Tom Lawrence and Simon Church to make the most of their opportunities.
Wales are preparing for their first tournament appearance in 58 years, having been drawn alongside England, Russia and Slovakia in Group B.
Follow all the post-match reaction here
Coleman made six changes from Thursday's 1-1 draw against Northern Ireland as he sought to give his players a final audition for this summer's tournament.
Media playback is not supported on this device
Lawrence is among those uncertain of their places for France, and the Leicester forward - currently on loan at Cardiff - had the game's first chance as his shot was tipped over by Andriy Pyatov.
Wales controlled the early exchanges with Joe Allen influential in midfield, but they faltered in attack as Lawrence and Church - on loan at Aberdeen from MK Dons - toiled to no avail.
The visitors were left to rue their inability to genuinely trouble the Ukrainian defence when the home side scored with their first shot of the game.
Wales tried springing an offside trap from Ruslan Rotan's lofted free-kick, but their miscalculation left Yarmolenko free to score with a shot on the turn, despite a touch from Welsh keeper Wayne Hennessey.
Following their draw in Cardiff, Northern Ireland will have kept an interest in Welsh fortunes in Kiev having been drawn in the same Euro 2016 group as Ukraine.
There was little to concern Michael O'Neill's side at the Olimpiyskiy Stadium, though Yarmolenko's goal was a reminder of the Dynamo Kiev forward's significant threat.
It also hinted at what appears to be a Welsh weakness from defensive set-pieces.
Coleman's side were sloppy in conceding from a corner against Northern Ireland and they were similarly found wanting for Yarmolenko's goal.
Wales were at least their usual tidy selves in possession, though their efforts on target only came late in the game as Jazz Richards and Ben Davies both forced Pyatov into saves.
Wales manager Chris Coleman:
"It's never easy to go to Ukraine, even at full-strength it would be a tough game.
"We've come to a tough place to play but we were the team that dictated.
"Apart from the goal, Wayne Hennessey had little to do and we were always the team dictating the tempo of the game.
"We know it's a good test for us because when we play Russia and Slovakia in the Euros it will be very similar."
Wales visit Sweden for their final friendly on 5 June, by which time Coleman will have decided on his squad for Euro 2016.
They will travel from Stockholm to their French training in base in Dinard, before moving on to Bordeaux for their opening fixture of the competition against Slovakia on 11 June.
By then, Real Madrid forward Gareth Bale and Arsenal midfielder Aaron Ramsey should be available again having missed Wales' last three friendlies because of injury.
On the evidence of Wales' displays against Northern Ireland and Ukraine, their returns cannot come soon enough.


A Canadian city has banned an aquarium from bringing in new dolphins, whales and narwhals.

The Vancouver Park Board voted to ban bringing in all new cetaceans, even if they are injured or rescued.
Some people believe keeping large mammals in captivity is cruel and dangerous for the animals' health.
But the Vancouver Aquarium says the ban effectively ends whale rehabilitation and research in Canada.
The aquarium, which sits on land controlled by the parks department, currently has three cetaceans, all of which were rescued and considered incapable of living in the wild.
These animals will remain and are not affected by the ban.
Protesters on both sides of the debate turned up for the vote on Monday night.
Public sentiment has been turning away from keeping whales in captivity for some time, says Vancouver Humane Society spokesperson Peter Fricker.
"There's substantial scientific evidence that cetaceans do suffer in captivity, and that outweighs the benefit of putting them on display for our entertainment," he told the BBC.
The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals also supports the ban.
Michael Wiebe, chair of the Vancouver Park Board, said that after two belugas died within days of one another at the aquarium last fall, the board decided they needed to look into whether it was right to keep bringing in more.
"I believe it is time to move on," he said.
An internal investigation later found the whales were killed by an unknown toxin, possibly introduced through their food.
But the Vancouver Aquarium says the ban will ultimately hurt the animals more than help. Its Marine Mammal Rescue Program is the only programme in Canada able to provide long-term care for rescued cetaceans that can't be released back into the wild, said CEO John Nightingale.
"It turns its back on some of the marine animals in need when they are in need," he told the BBC.
Although only six cetaceans have been treated at the rescue centre over the past 50 years. Mr Nightingale said its long-term care facility has helped attract top experts, who in turn have helped further research.


Coventry City ended a run of four straight League One defeats by winning at relegation-threatened Blackpool.

Blackpool nearly broke the deadlock but on-loan midfielder Liam Smith's 25-yard shot was saved by Reice Charles-Cook.
Sky Blues defender' Chris Stokes headed a corner over before Marc-Antoine Fortune pounced on keeper Colin Doyle's mistake to lash in from three yards.
Jacob Murphy headed wide but one goal proved enough for Coventry, leaving Blackpool winless in seven games.
With 10 games left, Blackpool are two points adrift of safety.
The Sky Blues climb a place back up to seventh, within three points of the play-offs, but 10 points adrift of the automatic promotion places.
City had to play out the final nine minutes with 10 men after Stokes was stretchered off when the visitors had used all of their substitutes.
Sky Blues manager Tony Mowbray told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire:
"The team played with heart and soul, and put everything on the line. There was an amazing support here which shows the players what a big club they're playing for.
"Our targets haven't changed. We needed a result from somewhere which would kick-start us to winning football matches. Hopefully this is it.
"We've got to fight hard and hopefully achieve our aims for the season."


Protesters in Mexico clashed with police following a largely peaceful rally in support of 43 students who went missing in September.

The demonstrators expressed their anger over the handling of the case by President Enrique Pena Nieto.
The president's popularity rating has dropped to its lowest point since he took office two years ago.
The students disappeared after clashing with police in the town of Iguala on 26 September.
The case has shocked Mexicans as allegations of police collusion with drug gangs surfaced during the investigation into their disappearance.
In October, Mexico's attorney general ordered the arrest of Iguala Mayor Jose Luis Abarca.
Many of the protesters carried placards calling for the president to step down, says the BBC's Will Grant in Mexico City.
In Guerrero state, where the students disappeared, they set cars on fire and smashed windows, our correspondent adds.
On Monday, President Pena Nieto submitted a package of ten reforms aimed at tackling the crisis to Congress for debate.
Some of the more controversial proposals include replacing all 1,800 municipal police forces with state-level units.
The president also wants extra powers to shut down local governments considered to have been "infiltrated" by drug cartels.
Mr Pena Nieto has announced he will travel to Iguala later this week. He has not visited the town since the students went missing.
The students had travelled from a teacher training college in Ayotzinapa to the town of Iguala in Guerrero state to protest against what they say are discriminatory hiring practices for teachers which favour urban students over rural ones.
Police opened fire on the students, who were in buses travelling back from Iguala to their college. Three of them were killed and three more people in nearby vehicles also died.
A busload of the students attempted to flee but were chased by municipal officers who then took them to the local police station.
Some of the officers, who have since been arrested, told investigators they then handed the students over to a local drug gang called Guerreros Unidos (United Warriors).
The leader of the gang, who has also been detained, said that he had been told by one of his men that the 43 were members of a rival gang.
He then reportedly ordered that they be "made to disappear".
Members of the gang have told investigators they killed the students and burned their bodies at a rubbish dump.
Remains found at the site have been sent for testing to a laboratory in Austria.
26 Sept: Students from a teacher training college in Ayotzinapa travel to Iguala to protest and raise funds
Night of 26 Sept: Police stop the students, 6 people are shot dead, 43 students disappear
30 Sept: Iguala mayor Jose Luis Abarca asks for leave from his post, which is granted
4 Oct: Mass graves are found near Iguala containing 28 bodies
19 Oct: Federal police are deployed to Iguala and replace the municipal force
22 Oct: Mexico's prosecutor general says an arrest warrant has been issued for Mr Abarca, his wife and the town's police chief
23 Oct: Guerrero state governor Angel Aguirre resigns
29 Oct: President Enrique Pena Nieto meets the relatives of the missing students and promises a "renewed search plan"
4 Nov: Mr Abarca and his wife are arrested in Mexico City
7 Nov: Three gang members confess to killing students and burning their bodies, according to Mexico's attorney general
11 Nov: International forensic teams says test carried out so far suggest bodies found in mass graves are not those of missing students
12 Nov: Remains found at rubbish dump sent to laboratory in Austria for analysis
27 Nov: President Pena Nieto announces plans for police reform


Hillary Clinton has attacked Donald Trump as the symbol of a "rigged system" after it emerged that he may not have paid income tax for 18 years.

"It's Trump first and everyone else last," said the Democratic presidential hopeful while campaigning in Ohio.
At the weekend, the New York Times claimed Mr Trump might have avoided tax due to a $1bn loss he made in 1995.
But the Republican tycoon declared on Monday it showed he had "brilliantly" navigated the complex tax code.
"I understand the tax laws better than almost anyone," he said, adding that as a hotel developer and businessman, he had "legally used the tax laws to my benefit and to the benefit of my company".
His business acumen makes him uniquely qualified to reform the tax code, he told supporters in Colorado.
But his Democratic rival castigated him as a hypocrite because he casts himself as a change candidate who will reform the system in favour of working people.
"While millions of American families - including mine and yours - were working hard paying our fair share, it seems he was contributing nothing," said Mrs Clinton.
"Trump represents the same rigged system that he claims he's going to change."
The tax row is sure to be continued on Tuesday on the debate stage when the two candidates' running mates, Republican Governor Mike Pence and Democrat Tim Kaine, duel in Virginia.
In other campaign developments:
Mr Trump has been on the defensive for a week, ever since the first presidential debate with Mrs Clinton in which he was widely thought to have been second best.
A CNN/ORC poll on Monday night suggests Mrs Clinton has received a post-debate bump.
With five weeks to go until the election, she has pulled five points ahead nationally according to the poll, and is getting away from him in some of the key battleground states.
Nearly three-quarters of those polled said Mr Trump should release his tax returns.
Who is ahead in the polls?
49%
Hillary Clinton
45%
Donald Trump
Last updated October 3, 2016


Drones have been banned from flying within 32 miles of American Football's Super Bowl, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has said.

In a video to sports fans, the FAA warns the stadium is a "no-drone zone".
The restrictions cover anywhere within 32 miles of the Super Bowl stadium in Santa Clara, California, between 14:00 and 23:59 PST on 7 February.
FAA regulations also advise that "deadly force" may be used if a drone is perceived as a security threat.
The Super Bowl is the climax of the football season, and a crowd of 70,000 is expected for this year's game.
"Bring your lucky jersey, bring your facepaint, bring your team spirit," the video announces, "but leave your drone at home."
No-drone zones have become commonplace in the United States at sports and entertainment events at which large crowds gather.
Furthermore, permanent restrictions are in place over sensitive buildings - such as airports and the White House.
FAA regulations state: "The United States government may use deadly force against the airborne aircraft, if it is determined that the aircraft poses an imminent security threat."


Two men have been charged with terrorism offences.

Ibrahim Anderson, 38, and Shah Jahan Khan, 62, from Luton, are accused of inviting support for a banned organisation.
Mr Anderson, of Dallow Road, and Mr Khan, of St Catherine's Avenue, were arrested after an investigation by Met Police counter-terror officers.
Mr Anderson has also been accused of possessing information of a kind likely to be useful for terrorism.
Both have been bailed to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on Tuesday, 21 April.
The offences are alleged to have taken place in August and December 2014.


Governments from around the world have vowed to take action on the illegal trade in wildlife.

At the conference at Lancaster House in London, delegates from 46 different countries and 11 UN organisations have signed The London Declaration.
This outlines the steps that need to be taken to stop animal poaching, which governments agreed needs to be treated as a serious crime.
The illegal trade in wildlife is worth about $19bn dollars a year.
The London declaration states that investigating the links to corruption and organised crime needs to be made a priority.
The 46 countries have also committed to improving cross border cooperation - and to strengthening laws and policing.
By Rebecca MorelleScience reporter, BBC World Service
The London Declaration could be a pivotal moment for wildlife.
With four African presidents - as well as delegates from China and Vietnam - among the signatories, the illegal animal trade has been pushed from the conservation agenda to the political one.
But now the hard work begins.
The commitments agreed will need to be put into action - fast.  Conservationists urge that there's no time to spare because the survival of these key species is on the line.
But has the declaration gone far enough - especially when it comes to the ivory trade?
Some NGOs have called for a total ban of all ivory sales and the destruction of stockpiles around the world.
Without this, they say, poaching is unlikely to stop.
With tens of thousands of rhinos, elephants and tigers being killed each year, these species face a real risk of extinction.
The bulk of poaching takes place in Africa, but much of the demand comes from Asia, where animal products, such as rhino horns, are used in traditional medicine or are bought by the rich as trophies.
Speaking at the conference, the UK's Foreign Secretary William Hague said: "The illegal wildlife trade is a global problem and it matters deeply to all of us gathered here today.
"We need to show the world our political commitment at the highest level across the globe to addressing this before it is to late."
Actions from the meeting include:
Conservationists broadly welcomed the news, but they say action will be need to be taken quickly.
Heather Sohl, chief species adviser at WWF-UK, said: "Governments signing the London Declaration today sent a strong message: Wildlife crime is a serious crime and it must be stopped.
"This trafficking devastates species populations, but also takes the lives of rangers, impedes countries' economic development and destabilises society by driving corruption."
Dr John G Robinson, chief conservationist at the Wildlife Conservation Society, said the illegal trade involved "well-financed and well-armed syndicates".
He commented: "The declaration calls for governments to crack down on these criminals with stiffer penalties and more aggressive investigation and prosecution, including addressing the corruption and bribery that facilitate these crimes.
"It further calls for addressing this crisis at all points of the supply chain - where the animal is killed, where the parts are trafficked, and where the products are purchased."
Prince Charles and The Duke of Cambridge, Prince William, attended the meeting, hosted by the UK government.
The conference heard from the presidents of Botswana, Chad, Gabon and Tanzania, and the foreign minister of Ethiopia.
President Khama of Botswana said that he would put the country's ivory stockpiles out of reach of the markets.
As an additional pledge, the leaders of Botswana, Chad, Gabon and Tanzania have agreed to a moratorium on the ivory trade for at least 10 years, as part of an elephant protection initiative.
While the trade of ivory has been banned under CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) since 1989, some states have been granted permission to sell their ivory stocks in the past.
In 1999, CITES authorised a "one-off" sale of stockpiled ivory from Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia to Japan, and in 2008 Namibia, Botswana, South Africa and Zimbabwe sold their stocks to buyers in China and Japan.
In essence, by issuing a 10-year moratorium, the four African states are saying they will uphold the ban, and not ask for permission from CITES to sell any of their ivory.
Follow Rebecca on Twitter


Residents of an Oxfordshire village face having to be buried elsewhere as a church graveyard reaches  capacity.

The churchyard of St Leonards Church in Eynsham has enough space for fewer than ten graves.
Attempts to use land near the 13th Century church have not proved viable due to land prices and archaeological concerns.
Reverend Moray Andrews said it was "causing understandable concern in the community".
The church stopped taking reservations for plots ten years ago when the shortage of space was becoming apparent.
Mr Andrews said attempts by the church and parish council since then to find additional suitable land close to the church had been hampered by the cost of archaeological investigations as a medieval abbey is known to have been located nearby.
He said the issue of "over-burying" in the older parts of the graveyard could be explored but moving gravestones would be time-consuming and there was a reluctance in the community to see old graves moved.
Funeral director Annie Green said it was a "major concern" that contingency plans had not been made.
"There is an elderly population in the village. A lot of them are from old Eynsham families and they would expect to be buried in their parish churchyard," she said.
She said most would "not be happy at all" at the prospect of burials at Whitney town cemetery where fees for "out of parish" burials would be higher.
Gordon Beach, chairman of the parish council said: "We've been working with the church for a number of years looking for alternatives - it's not easy, land is at a premium."


The men who fought in it call it the "forgotten war".

But 60 years after the Korean war ended, veterans from both sides of the Irish border have been remembering the conflict and the terrible toll it took.
For three years from 1950, United Nations forces, including British and American contingents, fought North Korean and Chinese armies that had invaded South Korea.
Anthony Thorpe, a Dubliner, joined the Army while living in England, and served in Korea with the Ulster Rifles.
Now aged 85, he remembers Chinese soldiers coming at him in droves, the horrendous casualties, his lost comrades and the military medal, the MM, that he did not get.
"There was one chap who walked into a minefield and got he back of his legs blown off.
"I carried him out. As far as I know, the sergeant took him off my shoulder when I got out of the field.  He got the MM and I got the stained shirt. It should have been the other way around but it wasn't to be," he says.
Soon to be 82-year-old former corporal Frank Gorman, from Tempo in County Fermanagh, served in Korea as a mechanic and engineer attached to the King's Own Scottish Borderers.
One of his abiding memories of the war is the weather, the heat in the summer and how the freezing cold of the winter affected both him and the trucks and machines he maintained.
He says: "The frost was that severe that if you didn't get your tea drank as you went along a sheet of ice would form over the top of it. That's my worst experience."
The Korean war is often referred to as the forgotten war by those who fought in it.
Among them is retired brigadier Brian Parritt who has written a memoir of his experiences called Chinese Hordes and Human Waves.
"It was such a long way away and it came so closely after the great battles of the Second World War.  At three years it didn't last all that long. And it never made the impact in this country as we had economic problems recovering after a major war. So, it has slipped a bit from people's memories," he says.
But it has not slipped from the memories of the South Koreans who say they are grateful to the UN soldiers for their freedom.
While the closed, communist north endures famines and poverty under the rule of one family with nuclear ambitions, the south has become a modern democratic society and an economic power-house.
That's something the veterans who returned to Korea in April quickly discovered.
Canon Robert Jennings, who lives in County Wicklow, found it hard to believe how much its capital, Seoul, had changed.
He says: "There was nothing there except ruins when we left.  But when I was back last April it was a magnificent beautiful city of skyscrapers, three-tier roads and the bullet train. We went on that at 200 miles an hour."
But that freedom and economic turnaround came with a terrible price.
An estimated 2.5 million people died in the war, including 5,000 British soldiers.
Before leaving his home Canon Jennings read for me the following lines of the Korean Lament by Mark McConnell, an Irish man who also fought in the war:
There's blood on the hills of Korea,
It's the blood of the freedom we love,
May our names live in glory forever,
And our souls rest in Heaven above,
And, boy, when you go back to Dublin and Belfast,
When this war is over and done,
Just think of the ones left behind you,
Out in the Korean sun.


Only 18% of Welsh voters support the UK government's plan to reduce the number of Welsh MPs by more than a quarter, the BBC Wales St David's Day poll suggests.

Some 52% of those polled believed the current number of MPs was "about right", with 28% backing increasing the number of Welsh MPs to more than 40.
The number of Welsh MPs will fall from 40 to 29 at the next general election.
It is part of a move to reduce the number of UK MPs from 650 to 600.
One Conservative who could see his constituency disappear under the plans is Montgomeryshire MP Glyn Davies.
He agrees that Wales has sent too many MPs to Westminster, but believes that the rural population could loose out under the new plans.
He told BBC Wales' Y Sgwrs programme: "I worry a lot about what will happen."
Mr Davies said: "Rural areas will lose out. I expect that to happen in Wales more than any other area."
He added: "The bill specifies the same amount of population for each constituency.
"There is no flexibility for the commissioners to bring sensible suggestions forward."
The changes are being made as a result of rules that require broadly equal numbers of voters in each constituency.
Welsh constituencies currently have, on average, fewer voters than English ones.
The Boundary Commission for Wales has said it will publish "initial proposals" for Welsh constituencies later in 2016, to be followed by a period of consultation.
When asked about the number of assembly members, just under half of the respondents, 48%, believed that the current 60 AMs is "about right".
But 23% of those polled believed the number of AMs should be cut.
Assembly Presiding Officer Dame Rosemary Butler has called for an increase to 80 AMs, in response to the additional powers and responsibility being devolved to Wales.
Only 13% of those asked agreed with her, with 7% in favour of raising the number of assembly members to over 80.
Dr Elin Royles from Aberystwyth University believes that there is a strong argument for increasing the number of AMs.
"Increasing the numbers of assembly members would reflect the growth in powers and the need for strong scrutiny, so that we can create good legislation here in Wales," she said.
"This then would go hand in hand with the cut in MPs."
Data from the St David's Day poll released on Tuesday suggested that health was the biggest single issue that could affect the way people vote in May's assembly election.


A group of experts have called for a change in the law to allow assisted suicide.

They have argued that the current system is incoherent and needs to change.
But the panel - the Commission on Assisted Dying - acknowledged that any new arrangements would have to be carefully regulated to protect the vulnerable.
What does the current law say?
The 1961 Suicide Act makes it an offence to encourage or assist a suicide or a suicide attempt in England and Wales.
Anyone doing so could face up to 14 years in prison.
The law is almost identical in Northern Ireland.
There is no specific law on assisted suicide in Scotland, creating some uncertainty, although in theory someone could be prosecuted under homicide legislation.
But despite this, scores of UK citizens have travelled to Dignitas in Switzerland to end their lives - and no relative who has helped them has faced prosecution.
Wasn't the system changed last year though?
There was no change in the law, but the director of public prosecutions did set out the factors which would be taken into consideration when deciding if someone would face prosecution for helping someone to die.
He was asked to do this by the Law Lords after a multiple sclerosis sufferer argued that she had a right to know if her husband would face charges for helping her to go abroad to end her life.
The factors listed included whether the victim had reached a "voluntary, clear, settled and informed" decision.
There was also particular emphasis on the motivation of the suspect. They would be expected to have acted "wholly compassionately" and not for financial reasons, the director said.
The idea was that it would give people who were asking their loved ones to help them die an indication of whether they would then face charges.
However, the director stopped short of saying he would offer guarantees as the individual circumstances of each case would still need to be investigated.
What does the commission call for?
It says there is a "strong case" for change.
The panel highlighted the fact that the legal system was effectively turning a blind eye to some cases of assisted dying and argued it would be better to have a clear set of guidelines under which assisted dying could be permitted.
They said it should only be available to those who are over 18, have less than 12 months to live, were acting voluntarily and have the mental capacity to make such a decision.
This would rule out dementia patients - as in the latter stages of the disease their mental capabilities would be considered insufficient to take such a decision.
But it would mean people with cancer, who have say nine months to live, would be able to apply for an assisted death.
They would then have to be assessed by two independent doctors to ensure they met the eligibility criteria.
So will the law be changing then?
No. The commission was not set up by government and, therefore, carries no official weight. The government has already said there are no immediate plans to change the law.
In fact, it was established and funded by campaigners who have been calling for a change in the law.
Because of this some groups, including the British Medical Association, refused to take part, arguing it was not independent enough.
Instead, the report will be used to add weight to the campaign to get the law changed.
There have already been several attempts to legalise assisted suicide, but these have been rejected.
The most recent, in 2006, was defeated in the House of Lords by 148 votes to 100.


Supermarkets and banks could be forced to provide services in Welsh as part of a drive to boost use of the language, BBC Wales understands.

The Welsh Government wants there to be one million Welsh speakers by 2050.
Public bodies like councils already have to provide services in Welsh, with new standards being set for water, energy, bus and rail companies.
Campaigners have said Welsh language minister Alun Davies told them they should cover the whole private sector.
Assembly members were discussing the target of one million Welsh speakers in the Senedd on Wednesday.
The issue of compelling private companies and public bodies to offer services in Welsh has been controversial in some quarters on the grounds of cost and complexity.
The pressure group Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg (Welsh Language Society) has said Mr Davies told them of his support for widening such measures to other firms at a meeting in March.
In a letter to the minister the following day, the group said: "We are glad that you are privately and personally in favour of including the rest of the private sector in the measure."
The Welsh Government is expected to publish its plans to reform Welsh language requirements before the assembly breaks for summer recess in late July.
Plaid Cymru, which led the debate on Wednesday, is urging ministers to plan for "substantial growth" in Welsh medium education and childcare, strengthen the role of the Welsh language commissioner, and to ensure economic planning takes the Welsh language into account.
Consultation in 2016 on the target of one million Welsh speakers suggested it would be based on the census returns where people in Wales are asked to identify whether they speak the language or not, although not how fluently or regularly.
The last census in 2011 showed the number of Welsh speakers in Wales fell from 582,000 in 2001 (20.8% of the population) to 562,000 (19%).
The 1911 census reported the number of Welsh speakers as being close to a million at 977,000.


It has already been a bad week for Manchester City and their manager Manuel Pellegrini, and things could easily get even worse on derby day.

In his regular BBC Sport column, football pundit Robbie Savage looks at how Sunday's Manchester derby is the start of a big week for Manchester City manager Manuel Pellegrini, why Burnley do not come close to his old Derby side as being the worst team in Premier League history and what happens next for Leeds after their latest managerial change.
The people saying they are a club on the brink of a crisis are not far wrong - this is a pivotal moment for City's season and, possibly, Pellegrini's future too.
I am expecting Chelsea to beat QPR on Saturday and, if they do, City will go into Sunday's derby with Manchester United nine points behind Jose Mourinho's side.
After two defeats and a draw in their last three games, the defending Premier League champions will be under massive pressure to find some form, beat their neighbours and stay in touch at the top.
If they don't get three points against United then, with their hopes of Champions League progress also in the balance, there could be serious questions asked about Pellegrini's future for the first time since he arrived in English football in the summer of 2013.
In that time, the spotlight has usually been on the manager on the other side of Manchester - firstly David Moyes, and now Louis van Gaal.
Pellegrini, who is very much the quiet man anyhow, has rarely made the headlines other than by winning the Premier League title in his first season in charge.
It is a mystery why City have failed to find the electric attacking form from last season
That was a superb achievement, and he did it playing some brilliant attacking football, but now he is finding out how hard it is to deliver the dominance that is the long-term goal for City's owners.
For City to become as big as they want to be, which is a worldwide force in the same bracket as Manchester United and Real Madrid, they have got to win the Champions League.
That is almost certainly not going to happen this season - they might not even get out of their group.
City have another must-win game against CSKA Moscow on Wednesday but even then they face a fight to reach the knockout stage.
Another Premier League title this campaign already looks a huge ask and, for me, defeat by United would all but finish their hopes - I do not see Chelsea losing three times all season and that nine-point gap would be too big to make up.
Wednesday's defeat by Newcastle means their defence of the Capital One Cup is already over too so, by Bonfire Night, they could be realistically down to being in the hunt for one trophy - the FA Cup.
The worry for Pellegrini is whether winning that would be enough to keep him in his job.
A run in that competition did not seem to help his predecessor at the Etihad Stadium, Roberto Mancini, very much.
Mancini's departure appeared to have been decided before the 2013 final, which City lost to Wigan. If that is true, then even winning the FA Cup would not have saved him.
City's struggles this season already remind me of what happened under Mancini after he won the Premier League in 2012.
They failed to improve their squad, flopped in Europe and ended up finishing a distant second in the title race.
This time around, their early-season form has not been disastrous, just not very good.
Their defensive problems are obvious and, on the face of it, most worrying.
But it is a mystery why they have failed to find the electric attacking form from last campaign that saw them become the quickest team to score 100 goals in a season in the Premier League era.
Yaya Toure seems to be getting a lot of the blame but, while he has not been at his best, City's problems are clearly not all down to him.
Ignoring domestic cup games against non-Premier League teams, they scored 37 goals in their final 14 games of last season.
In the same period at the start of this one, and again ignoring games against lower division opposition, they have found the net only 22 times.
I don't know what has gone wrong and why they are missing their spark, but the worrying thing is that Pellegrini does not seem to know either.
It is not beyond him to turn things round, however.
This time 12 months ago, City were smashing teams all over the place at home but shipping goals badly on the road and had lost four away games in the league by mid-November.
Pellegrini adapted his tactics, added some defensive solidity to their attacking flair and did not lose again away until the middle of April.
He needs to do something similar again now, starting on Sunday.
Things look pretty grim for Burnley right now - they are bottom of the table without a win from their first nine games, and look unlikely to break their duck when they play Arsenal on Saturday.
Even so, I do not see the Clarets rivalling my old Derby side as the worst team in Premier League history, which we were when we sank like a stone in 2007-08.
We were the first Premier League side to be relegated as early as March and went down with only 11 points and just one victory, going 32 games without a win - all unwanted Premier League record lows that still stand.
The Rams had picked up that win before I joined them from Blackburn in January of that season, so I didn't even win one game with them.
I knew going into every game that we would get beaten, and most of the time that is what happened
I can laugh about it now but it was a horrible time.
Derby were eight points adrift at the bottom of the table when I moved to Pride Park so I knew there was a good chance they would go down.
But they had just made a few signings to try to stay up - players like Laurent Robert, Hossam Ghaly and Danny Mills - and, as far as I was concerned, they were still fighting. The worst case scenario was going down, and then helping them get straight back up.
Any positive thoughts had disappeared within a week of me going there, though, just from what was happening in training.
The players had no confidence and we ended up going into games every week looking at the opposition and thinking 'how are we going to get anything here?'
I learned a big lesson about how big a part self-belief plays in sport.
I knew going into every game that we would get beaten, and most of the time that is what happened.
I would still do my best but for the first time in my career I did not think that would be enough to make a difference.
I think things are different at Burnley, though.
Yes, they are the only team without a victory in the top four divisions in England but they are not playing like a beaten team.
Their manager Sean Dyche is a big believer in positive thinking, and his players are responding to that, despite their results.
On the pitch, Derby's big problem was goals. There just were not enough of them in that Rams team, and we only scored 20 in 38 league games.
Kenny Miller was our top league scorer with four. Then came Emanuel Villa, a £2m Argentine who was new to the Premier League and scored three times after signing in January.
Our other strikers, Steve Howard and Robert Earnshaw, scored one apiece.
I wasn't going to score any from midfield and neither was David Jones who, ironically, is now playing for Burnley. He is probably worried that he is going through a repeat of that 2007-08 season all over again.
Their statistics do not look good, with Burnley near the bottom of the rankings in most attacking categories, particularly shots on target and their ratio of goals to shots.
I still think that is an area they will improve in when Sam Vokes returns from injury and can partner Danny Ings again.
Even if they do find the form that won the Clarets promotion, the bottom line is that it is a huge step-up from the Championship and Premier League, as Burnley are finding out.
But they will not go down without a fight and, sadly for Derby, I think that means their records are safe.
I have not forgotten that Leeds fans pelted me with hot-dogs when I was working as an on-pitch TV pundit at Emirates Stadium before an FA Cup tie against Arsenal in January 2012.
It was the first time I had been attacked with fast food.
Despite that, I still feel sorry for them with the managerial circus that is going on at Elland Road right now.
Academy boss Neil Redfearn is set to become Leeds' third head coach of the season after the club's owner Massimo Cellino sacked Darko Milanic after just 32 days in charge.
I had a great call from a young Leeds fan on 606 on BBC Radio 5 live on Saturday, who said that he still thinks they can finish in the top six in the Championship with Redfearn in charge.
But, realistically, survival has to be the target for Leeds. To achieve that, stability has to be the main aim for Redfearn and Cellino.
I don't think Leeds will go down but it is sad to see such a massive club with a great history and a fantastic fanbase face such an uncertain future.
The only way that is going to change is if Cellino gives Redfearn time.
Robbie Savage was speaking to BBC Sport's Chris Bevan


Scottish food exports reached £1.1bn for the first time last year, according to new figures.

The Scottish government said a 3.5% rise in exports was largely driven by overseas sales of fish and seafood, which climbed by £38m to £613m.
When drink was included alongside food, total exports were valued at £5.1bn.
The top international destination for Scottish food and drink produce remained the US, with exports worth £800m.
It was followed by France, with exports of £734m in 2014.
For the first time, Spain entered the top three export destinations, with sales valued at £247m.
The fourth and fifth export markets, ranked by value, were Germany (£208m) and Singapore (£202m).
Food exports to China soared by 82% to £46m, with the figures largely driven by sales of fish and seafood.
Overseas food sales to the wider Asia and Oceania region were up 31% to £113m.
Scottish Food Secretary Richard Lochhead welcomed the figures, which he said were 2reflective of the fantastic produce we have to offer here in Scotland."
He added: "We have a wonderful natural larder that lends itself to some of the best produce in the world and we have some extremely hard-working farmers, producers and processors who deserve the recognition that comes with their products being in demand all across the globe."
James Withers, chief executive of Scotland Food and Drink, said: "Scotland's national identity continues to grow in food and drink markets around the world.
"Whisky has blazed a trail globally, but it is one that is being increasingly followed by other food and drink products.
"Europe remains our biggest food export market but we are beginning to now realise our ambitions to expand across North America, the Middle East and Asia."


Nine High Street banks and building societies in the UK are to launch basic bank accounts which will not charge a fee for missed payments.

The new accounts will be available from 1 January to people who fail to qualify for a full current account.
It follows an agreement between the Treasury and the industry in December last year.
Nine million basic account holders will now not be charged for missing a direct debit payment, or a standing order.
Previously they might have paid up to Â£35 per failed payment, sometimes pushing them into an overdraft, so increasing the charges further.
"One bank charges Â£150 a quarter, and such costs can be make or break for some people," said Kevin Mountford, head of banking with Moneysupermarket.com.
"It will be a good thing if some of these extortionate costs are eradicated."
Some banks already do not charge such fees, but the agreement will mean a universal standard across the industry.
Barclays, Santander, NatWest, RBS, HSBC, Lloyds Banking Group, TSB, the Co-operative Bank and Nationwide Building Society are among those that will offer deals under the agreement, the Treasury said.
Users of the new accounts will also qualify for a debit card, which they can use to shop online, or at cash points.
But they will not be able to run up an overdraft.
However, around two million people in the UK still do not have a bank account at all, according to a report by the Financial Inclusion Commission, published in March 2015.
It said those without an account faced paying an extra Â£1,300 a year for financial services. But the industry argued that the situation was improving.
"These basic bank accounts build on the significant progress made by the industry on financial inclusion in recent years," said Anthony Browne, the chief executive of the British Banking Association.
"More people than ever before can now access banking services."


A union has called for an urgent review into cleanliness after a rat was apparently seen in a hospital kitchen.

Unison said in a dossier sent to Carillion, the company responsible for cleaning, that improvements need to be made at Nottingham City Hospital.
The hospital trust said a kitchen had reopened following a deep clean and there had been no "increase in infections" prior to this.
Carillion said it was working with the trust to "address outstanding issues".
Corall Jenkins, regional organiser of Unison, said the rat was seen on 7 and 8 August in a kitchen on a ward.
She said photographs taken in the hospital since the deep clean raised further issues.
"These pictures don't demonstrate an improvement in the standards of health and hygiene as borne out by our members concerns," she said.
"Staff are having to bring their own cleaning materials to work because of a lack of supplies.
"Improvements must be made as a matter of urgency."
Carillion won the five-year contract for cleaning, laundry and catering services in 2014.
In July, hospital bosses said the cleaning contract could be terminated if standards did not improve.
In a statement, Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust confirmed a kitchen was closed, deep cleaned and has since reopened following the "alleged vermin sighting".
"The trust is monitoring Carillion's performance monthly, and is very carefully considering the future of the contract with Carillion."
In a statement, Carillion said: "We have received a document from Unison which makes a number of claims relating to our contract with Nottingham University Hospitals.
"The claims will be fully and fairly investigated, and, if we find there is any substance to any of them we will take corrective action."


A former department head at a flagship free school in Bradford has denied fraud charges.

Shabana Hussain, 38, pleaded not guilty to fraud by abuse of position and a charge of acquiring criminal property relating to Kings Science Academy.
She appeared at Leeds Crown Court with ex-principal Sajid Raza, 42, and ex finance chief Daud Khan, 43 who also face charges.
The charges relate to the period between April and August 2011.
All three are accused of abusing their positions as officers of the academy by making a series of unauthorised and unlawful payments into the personal bank accounts of Mr Raza and Ms Hussain from a grant provided to the school by the Department for Education.
School founder Mr Raza, of Spring Gardens Road, Bradford, faces three charges of fraud, three of false accounting, two of obtaining a money transfer by deception and one of fraud by false representation.
Mr Khan, of Thornhill Place, Thornbury, is charged with two offences of fraud by abuse of position and three offences of false accounting.
Neither he nor Mr Raza entered pleas at the hearing on Friday.
Ms Hussain, of Wilmer Road, Bradford, Mr Raza and Mr Khan are on bail.
They are due to appear at the same court on 2 October, with a trial date set for 20 June 2016.
The academy was one of the first free schools to open, in September 2011.   It has since become part of the Dixons academy group.
The school is where supply teacher Vincent Uzomah, 50, was stabbed by a 14-year-old boy in a racially-motivated attack on 11 June.
The teenager was handed an 11-year sentence on Monday.


Andy Murray is right to rest and not play in this week's Davis Cup quarter-final against Serbia in Belgrade, says captain Leon Smith.

The Wimbledon champion has not missed a Davis Cup tie for over three years.
But Smith said: "Quite rightly he has to look after his body and his mind. He's got his eyes set on getting some rest and really making a big push for the Olympics, US Open and beyond."
Kyle Edmund and James Ward will play singles for holders Great Britain.
The quarter-final begins on clay in the Tasmajdan Stadium on Friday.
Although not playing, BBC Sport understands Murray is expected to fly out to support his team-mates.
"We would love him to come out and support. We are a really, really close unit," Smith told BBC Sport.
"I fully understand if he doesn't end up coming, but if he does it just gives everyone a boost to see your number one player, role model and current Wimbledon champion sitting there.
"We've seen him before - in Glasgow last March [for the tie against the US] - going bananas at the side of the court."
Dan Evans was also initially named in the team but did not travel to Belgrade because of a shoulder injury and "a couple of issues at home".
The world number 73 had an MRI scan after his run to the third round of Wimbledon and, although it showed no damage, the problem flared again when Evans started practising on clay.
"After five or 10 minutes of hitting it was clear that something wasn't quite right - even though he'd been checked in the morning before playing," Smith explained.
"That started to create some doubt, but then also he had a couple of issues at home that led to me thinking that he was not in the right headspace to travel."
James Ward, who has fallen to 240 in the world rankings, will play instead - having initially planned to compete in this week's grass court tournament in Rhode Island.
Novak Djokovic, beaten in the third round at Wimbledon, and the world number 32 Viktor Troicki have chosen to sit out the tie for Serbia.
Murray won all eight of his singles rubbers during Great Britain's Davis Cup victory last year and contributed to 11 of their 12 points.
World number 67 Edmund made his debut in last year's final against Belgium, while Ward earned a crucial win against American John Isner in the first round last year.


Great Britain's Fed Cup captain Judy Murray has taken up a short-term position coaching Heather Watson in Australia this month.

The British number two is without a permanent coach after parting company with Diego Veronelli in December.
The 23-year-old will team up with Andy Murray to represent Great Britain in the Hopman Cup, which begins on Sunday.
Watson will then defend her WTA title in Hobart, before heading to Melbourne for the Australian Open.
Argentine Veronelli, 36, left his role as coach of the world number 55 in December after deciding that he was no longer able to commit to spending up to 40 weeks a year on the road.


Over the last half century or so, we have watched as this huge nation has emerged from a place some used to disparagingly refer to as "Third World" to become a global economic superpower.

So, when in 2009, the country of Brazil and the city of Rio de Janeiro were awarded the right to host the Olympic Games it seemed an inspired, almost inevitable choice.
But Brazil is a very different country to the confident, progressive nation it was just seven short years ago.
I've lived, studied and visited here on and off for many years but since 2013 Rio has been my home and reporting on this country's preparation to host global mega events, including the World Cup and the Olympic Games, has been my job.
And, as we head into the first full week of Olympic competition, it is too early to say if these Games - the first to be held in South America - will be a success or if, in hindsight, it was a mistake for Rio to have even bid for the Games in the first place.
Friday night's opening ceremony in the Maracana Stadium certainly hit the right note. It was understated, costing about one tenth of Danny Boyle's extravaganza at London 2012, but it was unmistakably Brazilian.
There was a heavy emphasis on this country's great musical traditions and, making great use of sound and light, it set the right tone for an Olympics which is taking place against the backdrop of a deep economic and political crisis.
Even in the last three years I've seen huge changes in this city. Not only the new sporting venues demanded by Olympic chiefs, but improved transport infrastructure and museums in previously neglected parts of the city.
The city's charismatic and sometimes outspoken mayor, Eduardo Paes, has told me more than once that many of these improvements would simply not have happened were it not for the impetus of the Games.
He is probably right but the problem is that Rio, and Brazil, have arguably much more pressing long term concerns these days than organising a global sporting jamboree.
One small thing that struck me, as I walked away from the Maracana after Friday's show, was a stinking filthy open sewer running right beside the stadium. Like most other polluted streams and rivers it will empty straight into the Bay around which this city is built.
Brand new sports stadiums or tackling the problems of chronic pollution and underinvestment in social projects? It depends, I suppose, where your priorities lie.
I really hope the Games, and the Paralympics, which follow in September, are a huge success - Rio has been neglected for decades and for many reasons it deserves to be recognised as one of the World's great cities.
But you get the feeling that much of that euphoria, goodwill and hope we saw back in 2009 has evaporated.
Tickets sales for many sporting events, especially among local residents of the city as opposed to international visitors, have not been particularly encouraging. Tickets are actually quite expensive for Cariocas worried about their jobs and salaries and enthusiasm for the Games, particularly outside Rio, has been lukewarm.
The Games, I'm sure will avoid a major crisis and some of Rio's "issues" wont even be noticed by visitors - 85,000 soldiers on the streets, for example, will help the city's terrible crime statistics.
This is a city where people know how to party and where they love their sport. For the next fortnight it will certainly be the coolest, most active place on the planet.
But when the tourists, athletes and visiting journalists have gone, most of Rio's deep-rooted problems will remain.


The Scottish government should consider making it a criminal offence to run onto a football pitch, an independent report into the Scottish Cup Final trouble has concluded.

The Scottish Football Association asked Sheriff Principal Edward Bowen to investigate May's pitch invasion.
Fans clashed on the field following Hibs' historic win over Rangers.
Rangers claimed there were "a number of factual inaccuracies and contradictions" in the report.
The club said it would be "urgently" seeking a meeting with sheriff principal Bowen.
Hibs have so far made no official comment.
SFA chief executive Stewart Regan said its board would "consider the report in greater detail", and was "committed to ensuring that there is no repeat of the scenes that detracted from this showpiece occasion".
A number of people have been charged and one jailed following after-match events, which saw supporters invade the pitch and fights break out.
In his report, the sheriff principal said the pitch invasion was caused by "an exceptionally high degree of excitement" sparked by Hibs' last-minute winning goal, and that the "vast majority" of fans who ran onto the field did so "in a spirit of jubilation".
However, he said a small number had "behaved in a manner which went well beyond a manifestation of high spirits". This led to "direct physical confrontation with Rangers players" and "the hurling of obscene language and sectarian abuse".
During the match, the report said sections of fans in the section housing Rangers supporters had "merited greater police attention" than that containing Hibs supporters, due to "the discharge of pyrotechnics and the singing of sectarian songs".
He said that while "the overwhelming majority" of Rangers fans "behaved properly" and left the stadium at full-time, a small number had "allowed themselves to be taunted by the Hibs fans to the point of invading the pitch for the purpose of physical confrontation".
Sheriff principal Bowen said the layout of Hampden Park, which has a running track around the pitch, left police officers and stewards stretched and unable to deter the large number of pitch invaders.
He made a number of recommendations, including the installation of a "retractable tunnel" to create a secure path onto the field for officials and players at Hampden.
He said the number of stewards and police deployed at the stadium was "appropriate", saying there was "no basis for criticism" of stewards or security staff, and also said neither club was to blame for the incident.
The sheriff principal did not criticise stewarding or policing at the match, saying all agencies "played an appropriate part in seeking to clear the pitch". However, he said it might help to have a reserve of extra police officers at future high-profile matches who could be deployed onto the field in the event of a pitch invasion.
The report said there should be "full debate" about making encroaching on the pitch a criminal offence - similar to the law in England.
The sheriff principal said it could be argued that existing laws were sufficient, and that a specific offence would not have affected the actions of those who invaded the field in May.
However, he said "the very existence of a statutory prohibition might serve to send home the message that proceeding onto the field of play is likely to result in automatic sanction under the criminal law".
The report continued to say that it would be unfair to suggest that Hibs players running to the fans after the winning goal had caused or led to the pitch invasion, but said that it "may have contributed to the impression that direct physical interaction between players and supporters was an appropriate component in the celebrations".
He said referees should "continue to take a strict line with players who leave the field of play to engage physically with spectators", to "discourage the notion that physical interaction between players and fans is acceptable".
SFA boss Mr Regan thanked the sheriff principal for the "comprehensive" review, and said he was pleased that the report "acknowledges that the processes and procedures of the match operation were robust".
He said: "We are committed to ensuring that there is no repeat of the scenes that detracted from this showpiece occasion and will give full consideration to the recommendations set out by Sheriff Principal Bowen in respect of the Scottish FA's future planning of major sporting events under our jurisdiction."
The SFA's compliance officer is conducting a separate inquiry into the events of the match, while police are also investigating.
Rangers issued a statement saying they did not wish to do anything which would detract from the team's upcoming Scottish Premiership season opener.
However, they added: "It is imperative that we gain insight into the underlying basis for the findings in the report given that we consider it contains a number of factual inaccuracies and contradictions.
"It is right that the club gives the author and requisitioner of the report the opportunity to comment on our concerns prior to making a conclusive statement."


Northamptonshire opener Ben Duckett has become the first cricketer to win the Professional Cricketers' Association Player of the Year and Young Player of the Year awards in the same year.

Duckett, 21, is in England's winter tour squad to Bangladesh after scoring 1,338 Championship runs this summer.
Chris Woakes was named England Test Player of the Summer and Tammy Beaumont was voted Women's Player of the Summer.
Duckett said the awards are "probably the highlight of my summer".
He added: "I got my England call-ups and so many other things have happened. If someone had said at the start of the season that all this would happen I wouldn't have believed it.
"What makes the PCA awards so special is that you are voted for by your peers. People who you play against vote for you and that means a lot to me. I can't keep the smile off my face. I wasn't expecting this."
Beaumont scored centuries in her three England one-day internationals against Pakistan and helped Kent complete a Championship and T20 double.
She beat Natalie Sciver and Lauren Winfield to the award, voted for by her fellow England players.
"It's been a bit of a breakthrough summer for me. I hadn't really cemented my place before so to have a season like that was unbelievable," Beaumont said.
Team of the Year
Adam Lyth (Yorkshire), Keaton Jennings (Durham), Ben Duckett (Northamptonshire), Joe Root (c) (Yorkshire & England), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire & England), Liam Dawson (Hampshire & England), Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire & England), Keith Barker (Warwickshire), Toby Roland-Jones (Middlesex) and Jeetan Patel (Warwickshire)
Sixes Award
Colin Ingram (Glamorgan)
One-Day Cup Player of the Year
Graeme White (Northamptonshire)
T20 Blast Player of the Year
Colin Ingram (Glamorgan)
PCA Special Merit Award
Marcus Trescothick
ECB Special Award
Mike Selvey
Overall PCA County MVP
Jeetan Patel (Warwickshire)
Harold Goldblatt Award for the PCA Umpire of the Year
Michael Gough
PCA England Masters MVP
Mal Loye


IAAF member David Okeyo has been referred to the organisation's ethics commission after being investigated by police in his native Kenya.

Okeyo, vice-president of Athletics Kenya, is alleged to have siphoned off funds from a sponsorship deal between the national association and American sportswear firm Nike.
He denies any wrongdoing and said the contract was "executed with integrity".
Okeyo added there was no "embezzlement" and funds were "fully accounted for".
In a statement on Monday, he continued: "I await the investigations that may be undertaken and respond to all issues that may be raised by IAAF in the appropriate forum."
The news adds to problems for athletics' world governing body, after a week of doping and bribery scandals.
The IAAF provisionally suspended Russia from athletics on Friday after an independent World Anti-Doping Agency report alleged the country had been involved in state-sponsored doping.
Former IAAF president Lamine Diack, his son Papa Massata, advisor Habib Cisse and the former anti-doping chief Gabriel Dolle are also being investigated by French police over allegations they were complicit in covering up Russian doping - allegations they deny.
A IAAF statement read: "The IAAF was not aware of the investigation into Mr Okeyo in Kenya and the information has immediately been passed on to the independent IAAF ethics commission."
A spokesman for Nike told the Sunday Times the firm had acted with "integrity" in its dealings with Athletics Kenya and that the understanding of the sponsorship deal was that the funds would be "used to support and service the teams and athletes".
The spokesman added that Nike was co-operating with the local authorities in their investigation.


Surgeons in Oxford have used a gene therapy technique to improve the vision of six patients who would otherwise have gone blind.

The operation involved inserting a gene into the eye, a treatment that revived light-detecting cells.
The doctors involved believe that the treatment could in time be used to treat common forms of blindness.
Prof Robert MacLaren, the surgeon who led the research, said he was "absolutely delighted" at the outcome.
"We really couldn't have asked for a better result," he said.
BBC News exclusively reported on the start of the trial two years ago. The first patient was Jonathan Wyatt, who was 63 at the time.
Mr Wyatt has a genetic condition known as choroideremia, which results in the light-detecting cells at the back of the eye gradually dying.
Mr Wyatt was still just about able to see when he had the operation. His hope was that the procedure would stop further deterioration and save what little sight he had left.
He, like another patient in Professor MacLaren's trial, found that not only did the operation stabilise his vision - it improved it. The other subjects, who were at earlier stages in their vision, experienced improvements in their ability to see at night.
Mr Wyatt is now able to read three lines further down in an optician's sight chart.
"I felt that I had come to the edge of an abyss," he told BBC News.
"I looked down at total blackness. Professor MacLaren tapped me on the shoulder and said 'come this way, it's possible to see again'."
Mr Wyatt's wife, Diana, confirmed that the prospect of total blindness had made him feel very depressed.
"Now he is very optimistic," she explained.
"He is more independent, he can find things he couldn't before, he can go to the shops on his own and he's less of a nuisance!"
Another of the patients who underwent the treatment, Wayne Thompson, said he had noticed an immediate effect after the operation.
"My colour vision improved. Trees and flowers seemed much more vivid and I was able to see stars for the first time since I was 17 when my vision began to deteriorate," he told BBC News.
Mr Thomson said he had spent his life resigned to the fact that he would go blind.
"I've lived the last 25 years with the certainty that I am going to go blind and now (after the operation) there is the possibility that I will hang on to my sight," he said.
When Mr Thompson was first diagnosed, he was told that he would not be able to see his daughter, who is now nine, grow up.
"Now I hope I'll see my grandchildren grow up," he told BBC News.
If the improvements seen in the patients continue, the aim will be to offer the treatment to younger choroideremia patients to prevent them from losing their sight.
The condition is relatively rare: it is thought to affect a thousand people in the UK.
But Professor MacLaren believes that success with choroideremia demonstrates the principle that gene therapy could be used to cure other forms of genetic blindness including age-related macular degeneration.
This condition causes blindness in 300,000 people in Britain and causes a deterioration in the vision  of one in four people over the age of 75.
"The mechanisms of choroideremia and what we are trying to do with the treatment would broadly be applicable to more common causes of blindness," the professor explained.
"Choroideremia shows some similarities with macular degeneration in that we are targeting the same cells. We don't yet know which genes to target for macular degeneration but we do know now how to do it and how to put the genes back in."
Clara Aglen of the Royal National Institute of Blind People is also cautiously optimistic.
She told BBC News: "It is at an early stage at the moment, but it does offer hope for other conditions that have a genetic basis such as macular degeneration and glaucoma.
"As this process advances there is hope that it could be transferred across and provide a cure for these common causes of blindness."
Follow Pallab on Twitter


How have the first few party conferences shaped our knowledge of what domestic politics might look like after 2015?

Two important announcements on health and education from Labour and the Conservatives caught my eye.
Firstly, both parties propose more money for health. Labour's bigger pledge seems to cut against the party's attempts to present a more fiscally disciplined face.
At first sight, it is curious for the Tories, too. Why protect the NHS? The Conservatives already have a strategy that will entail a further round of 8 to 9% cuts in departmental spending, on top of existing plans, by 2018-19 - if they don't raise taxes.
Sparing health from the spending reductions inflicts all the pain on other departments, which will make those deep cuts harder to implement.
But neither has much choice, given their commitment to the NHS as it stands. Even in the short term, NHS spending will rise, whatever they say.
In fact the big question right now is whether the Department for Health will crash through its spending limits this year.
After years of broadly static funding, a tight situation for the health service is being exacerbated by a bigger rise in demand for health services than is normal.
So more money for health is a politically valuable campaigning point for both parties. But, in truth, they will have felt they really had few options.
Secondly, both parties are talking a big game on apprenticeships - training programmes for people in work. The Tories say they want to increase their number, delivering "three million apprenticeships" over the next parliament - an average of 600,000 a year.
That is big. About 510,000 people started an apprenticeship in 2012-13. That itself is a massive rise on 2009-10, when only 278,000 people began one.
The recent huge surge in apprenticeship starts came, in large part, as the government shut down other subsidised training routes. So lots of people who would have gone through schemes like the now defunct Train to Gain count as "apprentices" instead.
But, now, that easy growth is over. And as the rules around what is expected of apprentices and who may offer them have been toughened, growth has been spluttering. The number of apprentices has actually dropped from a high in 2011-12.
So, I suspect, reaching that three million target will require more effort, extra funding and new policy. New participating employers and employees need to be found. The extra ones will be harder to deliver than the existing ones.
Labour's plan on apprentices is longer-term - to have the number of under-25 apprentices in England rise to equal the number of young people going to university by 2025.
How many is that? Undergraduate starts for young people in 2010-11, the last year for which we have clear, useful data, were at about 320,000.
Looking at global trends, I would plan on the assumption that it will be quite a bit higher in a decade's time. So it's a big rise from the current 279,900 under-25 apprenticeships.
But Labour also wants all of those apprenticeships to be advanced programmes. Of those under-25 apprentices, only about 100,000 are at that level now. So it is a big undertaking.
That will all be expensive, and require employers to play ball as the state demands more training. In recent years, youth apprentices have also proved the hardest number to get to rise.
Labour says they can pay for it by refocusing "some of the existing spending on low-level apprenticeships currently being done by people in their 40s, 50s and 60s".
That would almost certainly mean overall apprenticeship numbers would drop. The biggest fallers would probably be the worst quality provision, too. So that might be good.
But it is hard to call. Some of those programmes get valuable - if basic - training to hard-to-reach people who missed out in their youth.
I have, of course, missed a party out that made great hay out of statements on the NHS in the past week. So what to make of UKIP's domestic policies?
Well, it is a bit early to start. A lot is still nascent. "Wait for the manifesto," I was told a lot when asking for detail and costing. Much of their policy work is starting from scratch.
Furthermore, I asked activists, spokespeople and MEPs about the red lines they would draw in any post-election negotiation with another party.
Europe was the only sacred cow, immigration was close behind, and "tax cuts" were a distant third place. Health and education were not on the list.
So - assuming that UKIP do not win an outright majority - a lot of the domestic policy issues they talk about outside those core areas is a strange sort of hypothetical.
That's why two UKIP MEPs cheerfully told me the party uses domestic policy to signal to us what sort of people they are, not to tell us what they would actually do.
They announce policy so you hear: "UKIP are pro-NHS and anti-establishment".
Still, they have fleshed out areas that really matter.
For example, Steven Woolfe MEP, UKIP's immigration spokesman, told me they would take a lot of students - though not all - out of their target to reduce net immigration to under 50,000 people a year.
Voters think UKIP are as hard as nails on migrants. So, if they say they think lots of foreign students are a good thing and aren't what people mean when they talk about migration, they take it.
This position helps Labour, because they too don't want students inside the target. In fact, only the Conservatives remain committed to keeping students within their immigration target.
And so, on policy, even as they laid into Labour at their conference, UKIP offered them a little covering fire.


A 42-storey student accommodation will be Wales' tallest building after Cardiff council planners gave it the go-ahead.

Standing more than 132m (433 ft) high, the building south of John Lewis will be home to around 450 students.
It will be taller than Swansea's Meridian Tower, which is the current highest at 107m (351ft).
Council planners approved the move on Wednesday and the building is due to be completed in summer 2018.
It will have a shop or cafe at ground level, and a "sky lounge" available for hire.


A group campaigning for the UK to leave the EU has urged the incoming leader of the Confederation of British Industry to rethink the lobby group's stance on the union.

Vote Leave, one of two exit campaigns, has previously accused the CBI of being "the voice of Brussels".
It has written to Carolyn Fairbairn about its concerns.
The CBI said she would give the letter "appropriate consideration" after she joins later this month.
The letter to Ms Fairbairn, who will replace John Cridland as director general at Britain's biggest business lobby group, is the latest move in a row between the two organisations.
Vote Leave has accused the CBI of not being critical enough of policy from the EU.
It said its analysis of CBI press releases suggested that only 1% were critical of the EU.
"The CBI is not properly representing British business interests," said Vote Leave co-treasurer Peter Cruddas, who is also a Tory donor.
The CBI responded by saying: "This petty claim is simply the latest in a systematic attack from Vote Leave/Business for Britain - a single issue campaign group that wants the UK to quit the EU - and whose aim is to neutralise the CBI in the EU debate for representing the views of the majority of our members, who want the UK to remain in a reformed EU."
Vote Leave is one of two campaigns pushing for Britain to exit the EU, the other being Leave.EU.
Three Eurosceptic groups are backing Vote Leave: Conservatives for Britain, Labour Leave and Business for Britain, which wants big changes to the UK's relations with the EU and says the UK should be prepared to vote to leave if reform is not achieved by David Cameron.
Earlier this month, Vote Leave complained to the British Polling Council about a 2013 survey that the CBI conducted with pollsters YouGov and which suggested most members would want to stay in the EU.
The CBI said the poll had been a member survey, not a poll of all British businesses. Vote Leave said this represented a climbdown from the CBI.
Speaking on Monday ahead of the start of the CBI conference, Mr Cridland told the BBC most of its 190,000 members "believe Britain should be in a reformed European Union".
"We are confident the prime minister can bring home the bacon and then we will ask our members again," he said.
Businesses wanted to continue to access the EU's open markets, but without the "wrong sort of regulation", Mr Cridland said. "It's about creating more investment and jobs in Britain."
The CBI will warn at the conference that a "gloomier" global outlook will eat into economic growth in the UK next year.
It has unveiled a "modest" downgrade in its forecast for 2015, saying it expects the economy to grow by 2.4%, down from an earlier prediction of 2.6%, and by 2.6% in 2016, down from 2.8%.
The group also disclosed its first forecast for 2017, saying it expected 2.4% growth, with a gradual rise in inflation hitting household spending.
President Paul Drechsler will call on business leaders to "let their employees, communities, customers and suppliers know what the [EU in-out] referendum means for growth and jobs", in a speech to delegates.
"Whilst there's no uniform view on the subject - neither within the CBI, nor among the wider business community, the majority of CBI members want to remain in a reformed EU," he will say.
"The majority of our members think that - on balance - the advantages of EU membership outweigh the disadvantages."
He will also hit back at another claim from Vote Leave that the CBI is funded by the EU.
"Our critics are saying we're EU fundedâ€¦ 0.6% of our income does come from the European Commission, which chooses to use our top-quality economic surveys as part of its work to collect robust economic data from across Europe," he will say.