There was an underlying new buzz of excitement in the corridors and bars and cafes of the House of Lords this week.

It felt like a busy place, somewhere that mattered, where significant things happened.
People were striding hither and thither with a self-important sense of purpose in their pace, and there was something in the air suggesting a self-conscious satisfaction that, once again, the members of the second chamber of the British Parliament had proved a point.
The curious irony, however, underlying this latest constitutional clash between the elected government of the UK and the unelected upper house - "the other place" as they call it in the Commons - is that for once it was a Conservative government that was failing to secure the passage of a piece of controversial policy because of the strength of the combined opposition in the House of Lords.
The irony derives from the fact that throughout the history of the last century conflict has previously always arisen because of an attempt by a Labour government to enact something radical against the wishes of what was, until 1999, the overwhelmingly Conservative majority in the Lords.
For example, in 1968 Harold Wilson's government embarked on one of the many attempts to reform the House of Lords but was scuppered by an alliance of Enoch Powell and Michael Foot (for differing reasons)  in the Commons and by the hostility of the Tories in the Lords.
That all changed two years into Tony Blair's government, with the first step towards some sort of serious reform and the introduction of a limit of 92 in the number of hereditary peers.
Now, there are 249 Tory peers ranged against 500 Labour, Liberal Democrat and cross-bench peers - plus an awkward squad of 25 bishops to be taken into account, let alone another 42 non-aligned others.
The Conservatives' dominance in the Lords, which was once taken for granted, is well and truly over.
There were some disputed technical issues to this week's challenge - should the measure have been proposed as a statutory instrument? Was it primarily a financial issue or one of welfare? - which need not detain us here.
The point is that the Lords overturned a decision of the Commons in unprecedented circumstances.
In recent history, the challenges that have occurred since the majority of the hereditary peers were shown the exit door for the grouse moors have led to bills being sent between the two Houses in what is now known as "parliamentary ping-pong". It was previously called "lutte a la corde" (tug-of-war) because much of the formal language of the Lords is in Norman French.
In 2005, for example, the two chambers sat for over 30 hours sending the Prevention of Terrorism Bill between them for two days and a night in the longest continuous sitting for 99 years.
The issue was whether provisions in the bill would lapse after a year, but the then Prime Minister, Tony Blair, gave up on the second day and offered an acceptable compromise.
David Miliband, as the Schools Minister, had trouble with an Education Bill in 2002 and Charles Clarke, Home Secretary, with an attempt to introduce identity cards in 2006.
The coalition government had serious problems with the legislation to allow a referendum on changing the voting system in 2011, which was strongly resisted in the Lords.
All led to "ping-pong" and eventually some form of mutual agreement.
There have been murmurs about packing the Lords in the past, but only ever murmurs.
This week, the suggestion David Cameron might create 100 new peers was floated as a threat, but would have caused more of a constitutional outrage than anything that was voted through on Monday.
As Prime Minister, Mr Cameron has already appointed more peers than any of his predecessors since 1958 - when life peerages were introduced - but with 816 members, the Lords is not only the largest unelected second chamber in the world, they don't even have the space to sit down.
Instead, the government is playing for time on the substantive issue, and Lord Strathclyde, the Leader of the Lords at the time of the referendum row - who pleaded then with his fellow peers to "respect the will of the elected chamber" has been charged by Mr Cameron with a rapid review of the constitutional niceties of what happened this week and what should prevail in future.
Scarcely a coincidence; we may presume this is because the prime minister knows, at least, where his lordship is coming from.
"Politics like a tarnished mirror must always retain some reflection of the national destiny," wrote George Dangerfield in his seminal work The Strange Death of Liberal England about the collapse of the Liberal Party at the beginning of the last century.
That was where this chapter began, with the rejection of Lloyd George's "People's Budget" in 1909 and the subsequent Parliament Act of 1911 to limit the authority of the Lords and remove all power over financial issues.
But that act specifically predicated reform of the Lords to a "popular" chamber, and in the intervening century that has still not yet been achieved.
The Blair government put forward seven options in 2003, and Jack Straw had another crack in 2007.
All three major parties were committed to Lords reform in the election of 2010, and the coalition had a go in 2012. None of these ships sailed, no balloons flew.
The tarnished mirror reflects instead just a constitutional mess of pottage.
But as Dangerfield also wrote, in his chapter Their Lordships Die in the Dark: "There is a barbarism in politics, not unhealthy, which decrees the death of any institution which has lost its economic meaning."
That is something that might perhaps focus the minds of those who wonder what the Lords is for.
Source: www.parliament.uk


Hundreds of people gathered in the hometown of the youngest victim of the Manchester bombing to celebrate what would have been her ninth birthday.

Saffie Roussos was among 22 people killed at an Ariana Grande concert at Manchester Arena on 22 May.
Balloons were released in her memory in Leyland on Tuesday evening.
Family friend Tess Watson said it was "absolutely wonderful to give her the party she deserves".
She said Saffie "was a wonderful, bubbly, happy girl" who "had the most beautiful wonderful smile".
"Today has been about giving her the best party we could give her," she said.
"She was just amazing... I'm so glad we have done this for her."
Saffie's father Andrew, told the BBC on Tuesday his daughter was "everything you could wish for in a little girl".
In his first interview since the attack, he said she was a "huge character" and "stunning".
Saffie had been at the concert with her mother Lisa and 26-year-old sister Ashlee Bromwich, who were both injured in the attack.
Ms Bromwich said Saffie was "Ariana Grande-obsessed".
Attacker 22-year-old Salman Abedi detonated a home-made bomb in the Manchester Arena's foyer as crowds were leaving the Ariana Grande gig.


Britain's Olympic skeleton champion Lizzy Yarnold returns after more than a year and a half out in the World Cup opener in Canada this weekend.

The 28-year-old has not competed since winning World Championship gold in Germany in March 2015.
"I've come back feeling refreshed, recharged and ready to give it my all again," said Yarnold.
Former GB sprinter Mark Lewis-Francis is set to make his World Cup debut in the four-man bobsleigh in Whistler.
Lamin Deen leads the four-man crew, which also includes Andrew Matthews and Tremayne Gilling.
Former England Rugby Sevens star Sam Blanchet is joined in the two-man bobsleigh by Welsh pilot Bruce Tasker.
Tasker is joined by fellow Welsh competitors Laura Deas, in the skeleton, and Mica Moore.
Commonwealth Games sprint relay finalist Moore, from Newport, will make her World Cup debut alongside pilot Mica McNeil in the women's bobsleigh sled.
Great Britain Bobsleigh performance director Gary Anderson said: "The message I've got from other nations is that they are looking to see what Great Britain have done and they want to pitch themselves against us. That's very positive news for me."
Yarnold, who won Olympic goal at Sochi 2014, also claimed European and overall World Cup titles before announcing in September 2015 that she was taking a year out from the sport.
The three-day World Cup in Canada, which starts on Friday, is the first of eight in the 2016-17 season.


Nearly 200,000 people have signed a petition to get a despondent polar bear moved from Argentina to Canada.

Arturo, nicknamed "the world's saddest animal", lives alone in a concrete enclosure in Mendoza, where temperatures can top 100F (38C).
The bear, 29, has been seen pacing in his pen and showing behaviour some have likened to depression.
Photos of him circulated online have led hundreds of thousands of people to urge his transfer to a zoo in Winnipeg.
The director of the Mendoza Zoo said earlier this year it would be unsafe to move the bear due to his age, but that hasn't stopped some high-profile support for a move.
"If you love animals the way I do, you're going to want to sign the petition to save the Argentinian polar bear, Arturo," former Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich wrote on Facebook on Wednesday.
"His current living situation is very sad, and he deserves to be saved."
Animal rights groups have expressed concern for Arturo, whose enclosure partner, Pelusa, died two years ago.
An online petition calling on Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner to transfer Arturo to Assiniboine Park Zoo in Winnipeg has garnered a great deal of attention.
The Canadian zoo - which opened its International Polar Bear Conservation Centre earlier this month - has previously said it would accept Arturo, but the decision to transfer him rests with the Argentinian zoo.


Australian Olympic 100m hurdles champion Sally Pearson will miss August's Rio Games after tearing a hamstring.

Pearson, 29, who won gold at London 2012 and silver at Beijing 2008, suffered the injury in training.
"Unfortunately, it is the biggest sporting event in the world that I am going to be missing out on," Pearson told Australia's Nine Network.
"It's devastating that I can't be at Rio as the Olympic champ."
Australia's track and field captain only returned from injury in June but has struggled for fitness.
The 2011 world champion missed the end of the 2015 season after shattering her wrist competing in Rome.
The athlete has had trouble with track times since her return and finished last at Norway's Diamond League event earlier this month.
The Australian Olympic team's chef de mission, Kitty Chiller said earlier:  "It is just such a shame for a fantastic champion, a fantastic fighter and if she doesn't run in Rio I'll be very, very sad for Sally and the team."
In a blog post on 18 June, Pearson described her "exhausting" training regime to get ready for Rio and reflected on the "broken bones, torn calf, degenerative Achilles and hammy problems" that she has suffered from in the past 12 months.


England captain Alastair Cook has become the youngest player to score 10,000 Test runs.

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Aged 31, five months and five days, he achieved the landmark by reaching five on the fourth day of the second Test against Sri Lanka at Chester-le-Street.
He brought up the milestone with a leg-side clip for four off Nuwan Pradeep and saluted the England balcony.
He beat India legend Sachin Tendulkar's record of 31 years, 10 months and 20 days, which has stood since 2005.
England's leading Test run-scorer, Cook is the 12th player in history to 10,000 runs, and only the second opener.
Brian Lara, Kumar Sangakkara, Ricky Ponting, Rahul Dravid, Mahela Jayawardene, Sunil Gavaskar, Jacques Kallis, Allan Border, Shivnarine Chanderpaul and Steve Waugh are the other batsmen to reach the milestone.
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Cook surpassed Graham Gooch's tally of 8,900 Test runs at Headingley last May to become England's leading run-scorer.
He is playing the 128th Test of a glittering career which has seen him score 28 Test hundreds - also a record for an Englishman.
Cook made a century on debut against India in 2006, but was ruled out of the next match because of illness. He has not missed a Test since.
Appointed captain in 2012 following Andrew Strauss' retirement, Cook led England to Ashes series wins over Australia in 2013 and 2015.


The Scottish government has said up to 700,000 homes will benefit from its plans to make Universal Credit payments more flexible.

Under the plans, ministers will use new powers to give claimants the option to be paid fortnightly instead of monthly.
The government also plans to offer to pay housing benefits direct to landlords rather than via claimants.
The move is the first use of the social security powers devolved under the Scotland Act 2016.
The Scottish government announced earlier this month it would use new welfare powers to make payments of the reserved benefit more frequent and adaptable.
Responding to a parliamentary question by SNP MSP Graeme Dey, Social Security Minister Jeane Freeman said between 650,000 and 700,000 households could benefit from the changes by 2022.
Mr Dey said: "While the majority of social security powers remain reserved to Westminster, we're determined to use our powers to make the system fairer where we can.
"These reforms will provide the flexibility that claimants have told us they need, and in doing so it will help hundreds of thousands of families to manage their household budgets."
Opposition parties have claimed that the Scottish government has been too slow to make use of its new devolved powers.


Police searching for a Dutch tourist who has been missing for more than a week have found a man's body.

Cornelius Van Der Wetering, 54, was last seen in the Tomich area, about 30 miles from Inverness, on Wednesday 28 December.
Highland police said the body of a man in his 50s was found in a wooded area at about 15:30 on Thursday, near where Mr Van Der Wetering was last seen.
The death is not being treated as suspicious.
As with all sudden deaths, a report will be sent to the procurator fiscal.
Police Scotland said they were liaising with Mr Van Der Wetering's family in the Netherlands and thanked members of the public who took part in the search to find him.


British Airways has changed its advice to customers who claim expenses for the weekend's travel chaos after a row with insurers.

The BA website initially suggested that customers should make a claim on their travel insurance for expenses such as meals during the delays.
But the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and consumer rights experts say responsibility is with the airline.
BA has now updated the language, removing any reference to insurance.
Saturday's IT fiasco grounded hundreds of flights and disrupted the travel plans of tens of thousands of passengers around the world.
Passengers travelling in the EU are entitled to compensation, but insurers were angry with the airline for claims over non-flight expenses such as hotels, meals and phone calls.
BA's website had said: "You should make a claim with your travel insurer in the first instance. If you have expenses that either you were not successful in claiming or which are not covered by your policy, you may claim for only these expenses in the form below."
However, the ABI contacted the airline earlier in the week pointing out that the initial claim should be to the airline, and only if that was unsuccessful would some policies pay out for these costs. A payout from the airline means passengers are more likely to get the full refund, rather than be liable for an insurer's excess.
Revised wording was regarded still to be misleading by the ABI, until all reference to travel insurance was eventually removed from the online form by mid-afternoon.
In an interview on Thursday, Willie Walsh, the head of British Airways' owner IAG, said: "Clearly we will do everything we can to make up [for] the disruption they suffered."
The airline said: "We have been encouraging customers that were affected by the weekend's events to submit claims for their expenses, including those beyond flights, so that we can compensate them.
"We have created a dedicated page on ba.com providing customers with additional information on how to make a claim."
It has now also added a link on its homepage for compensation advice.
Questions still remain over exactly how the IT fiasco occurred. The airline said on Wednesday that a loss of power to a UK data centre was "compounded" by a power surge that took out its IT systems.
An email leaked to the Press Association suggested that a contractor doing maintenance work inadvertently switched off the power supply, although this has not been confirmed.
The email said: "This resulted in the total immediate loss of power to the facility, bypassing the backup generators and batteries... After a few minutes of this shutdown, it was turned back on in an unplanned and uncontrolled fashion, which created physical damage to the systems and significantly exacerbated the problem."
We have all been asked by IT support to "turn it off and on again" - but reports are circulating that doing so was spectacularly catastrophic at BA.
The story that an engineer accidentally disconnected a key data centre's power supply has not yet been confirmed by the airline and its IT contractor has said such speculation is "not founded in fact".
It is possible that a loss of power was compounded by back-up systems that failed to come online in time, but many are still questioning how that could be the case.
In other words, why would a single switch be a fail point for BA's entire operations?
Some IT professionals continue to question whether the age, quality and resilience of equipment in the airline's data centres may not also be to blame.
Until British Airways reveals some details about what happened, we can only keep guessing.


A burglar who was filmed by a BBC wildlife presenter's "fox camera" has been jailed for four-and-a-half years.

Footage captured Simon King's camera showed a man climbing over a fence and making off across a garden at a property in Herne Hill, south London.
Nigel Batton, 43, was convicted of one count of burglary and one count of attempted burglary at Woolwich Crown Court.
Batton, of Marischal Road, Lewisham, was sentenced on Monday.
The burglary took place at a property in Hollingbourne Road in Herne Hill.
The footage, which showed Batton in a nearby property's garden, was captured on Mr King's camera, which streams live on his website, at about 03:45 BST on 12 January 2014.
After it was released by police, a number of people contacted officers and identified Batton.
Police said a scarf left at the scene of the crime contained Batton's DNA and a cardigan worn by the burglar in the video was also found at Batton's home address,
Det Con Marie Hamilton, from Southwark police, said: "The images from the fox family camera were brilliant and together with the forensics we have been able to ensure that Batton has been brought to justice."
Mr King has featured in various BBC programmes including Springwatch, Big Cat Diary and Planet Earth.


The New Horizons probe, which is bearing down on Pluto, has captured its first colour image of the distant dwarf planet.

The picture, just released by the US space agency, shows a reddish world accompanied by its biggest moon, Charon.
New Horizons is set to barrel past Pluto on 14 July.
It will acquire a mass of data that it will then return to Earth very slowly over the course of the next 16 months.
At the current separation of nearly five billion km, it takes 4.6 hours for radio signals to come back. And the bit rate is painfully slow.
But the encounter is set to be the major space event of 2015. It will complete the reconnaissance of the "classical nine" planets of our Solar System; New Horizon's flyby will mean every one has been visited at least once by a space probe.
However, not since Voyager 2 passed Neptune in the late 1980s has a new world been revealed up close in the same way as will occur in mid-July.
Today, our best pictures of the 2,300km-wide Pluto come from the Hubble telescope. They are just blobs that make it very hard to discern anything of scientific certainty.
But from May, this will change, as the approaching New Horizons spacecraft starts to return pictures that begin to better in resolution anything Hubble has managed.
Tuesday's release merely whets the appetite. The picture was acquired by the spacecraft's Ralph colour imager on 9 April.
New Horizons was 115 million km - roughly the distance from the Sun to Venus - at the time. Even at this distance, it is possible to resolve some differences in appearance between the dwarf and its moon.  One seems brighter than the other.
When New Horizons flies by Pluto on 14 July, Ralph will deliver colour images that show surface features as small as a few km across.
"The spacecraft is in perfect health; it's full of fuel; and it's carrying a scientific arsenal of seven instruments that are - combined - the most powerful suite of instruments ever brought to bear on the first reconnaissance of a new planet,” enthused Alan Stern, New Horizons' principal investigator.
"Nothing like this has been done in a quarter of a century and nothing like this is being planned again by any space agency.
"This is a real moment in time for you to watch us turn a point of light into a planet."
Jonathan.Amos-INTERNET@bbc.co.uk and follow me on Twitter: @BBCAmos


Rory McIlroy is taking nothing for granted despite carrying a six-shot lead into the final round of the Open at Royal Liverpool.

The Northern Irishman carded a third-round 68 for a 16-under-par total, with American Rickie Fowler his nearest contender on 10 under.
McIlroy, 25, won from seven back at the PGA Championship at Wentworth in May.
"I know leads can go quickly," he said. "That's why you can't let yourself think about winning."
McIlroy was tied with Fowler on 12 under after 13 holes but eagles at the 16th and 18th helped him to the biggest 54-hole advantage at the Open since Tiger Woods led by six at St Andrews in 2000.
But McIlroy - whose father Gerry and three friends placed a bet £400 at 500-1 10 years ago that he would win the Open by the time he was 25 - is well aware what the pressure of leading a major tournament can do to a player, having blown a four-shot lead on the final day of the Masters in 2011 and eventually carded an 80.
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"I've been on the right side of it and I've been on the wrong side of it," said the 25-year-old, who has led from the opening day.
"You've just got to stay completely in the moment and that's what I'm going to do for all 18 holes tomorrow."
Fowler will tee off with his old rival in the final pairing on Sunday, having carded a third-round 68, and has not given up hope of overhauling him.
"If I can get off to a good start and put pressure on, there is a lot of golf to be played," said the 25-year-old American, whose rivalry with McIlroy dates back to when they faced each other in the 2007 Walker Cup.
"Being alongside Rory is an advantage. We are going to have a good time, so much can happen so quickly."
Fowler drew level at one stage on Saturday but stumbled down the back nine before also carding a 68.
Sergio Garcia is one shot behind Fowler and level with American Dustin Johnson but the Spaniard also held out hope of landing his first major title.
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"I am a little bit disappointed with the way I played the last two holes," said Garcia, whose third-round 69 would have been better but for a bogey at the 17th and a scratchy par at the par-five 18th.
"It is never easy being in the position of leader. Rory is a great player but you never know, anything can happen.
"But you can't just attack everything because you are not going to hit good shots. You have to attack where you feel comfortable attacking."
Meanwhile, world number one Adam Scott has not ruled out the possibility of somebody setting a record score for a major championship on the final day.
The Australian carded a third-round 69 to finish 10 shots behind McIlroy but believes a score of 62 is achievable, if Sunday delivers good weather.
"If we have similar conditions to today, there are low scores out there," said former Masters champion Scott.
"If you can get it going for 18 holes, there's a chance for that major scoring record to be broken.
"I think out of the group of the guys up there, there's probably a low score in one of them."


Sprinter turned bobsleigher Mica Moore is on track to compete in the 2018 Commonwealth Games and Winter Olympics after celebrating her first gold.

Moore and Mica McNeill won the junior Bobsleigh World Championship pair in Winterberg despite only beginning to compete together this winter.
The 24-year-old is hoping to compete in the Winter Olympics in South Korea in February 2018.
She also aims to represent Wales in the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games.
"Bobsleigh is taking priority at the moment but it will interesting to see where my athletics is," said Moore.
Prior to taking up bobsleigh, Moore competed for Wales as a sprinter at the 2014 Commonwealth Games and had a 100m personal best of 11.65 seconds.
Moore has turned to bobsleigh this winter and after two silvers and a bronze on the North American circuit, the Newport sprinter struck gold in Germany with McNeil.
"It was my first World Junior Championships, so to win gold was very satisfying," Moore told BBC Wales Sport.
"It was especially nice to have my Dad out there watching me live for the first time.
"He drove all the way out there which took about 12 hours but he said it was the most thrilling thing he had ever seen.
"Things haven't always gone to plan so far. In Altenberg in a World Cup race we came off the last corner and we crashed.
"It's not a nice experience but not as scary as you might thing. You just have to get back on the sled and I have complete trust in Mica as a driver.
"It's very hard work which I really enjoy, although it's so different to athletics."
Moore will now have to wait and see whether she is chosen for the World Championships in Konigssee which takes place between 17 and 26 February.
The Welsh woman has been alternating with fellow Great Britain sprinter Montell Douglas to partner McNeill during this season.
Douglas and McNeill won gold in the Europa Cup event staged at Winterberg two days before the junior competition. The pair are in action at the World Cup event in Austria this weekend.


Football hooliganism is nothing new in Germany, but when violence broke out before a Bundesliga match between two of the top clubs, this was something different.

The stones and bottles thrown and the hate banners displayed by Borussia Dortmund supporters on Saturday exposed a widespread loathing in Germany for a team seen as upstarts, RB Leipzig.
The club is challenging for Champions League football in its first ever season in the top flight. The hatred is because of the way they are wholly owned by one company, Red Bull.
A wall of hatred was on view: "Slaughter the bulls", "Red Bull, enemy of football" were some of the milder slogans used.
Families came under attack, and six fans and four police were hurt. One top football official Max Eberl said the violence was sick: "Whether you like RB Leipzig or not, it shouldn't get out of hand."
Dortmund's fans are not alone.
One tabloid newspaper, the Berliner Kurier, even refused to print the club's name a few weeks ago, using the insulting term "Dosenverkauf" (Can-sellers) in their Bundesliga table.
Selling drinks is the core business of RB's owner, Red Bull, and there have been plenty more insults since the company bought a team in the Leipzig suburbs in 2009 and oversaw four promotions in seven seasons.
Listen to Tim's BBC World Service programme here: The Rise of RB Leipzig
The vitriol derives from RB's ownership model. Traditionally German football clubs are run without a single, rich investor.
It is the members who must control a majority of the shares in the entity that owns the team. But RB Leipzig has only 17 members. It follows the letter of this law, but not its spirit.
Among the club's biggest critics is the chief executive at Borussia Dortmund, Hans-Joachim Watzke. "It's a club built to push up the revenues for Red Bull and nothing else," he says.
Read more on RB Leipzig here: RB Leipzig's rapid rise 'no fairytale'
Andreas Bischof, whose blog in Leipzig pokes fun at the new club, goes further.
"This club is not owned or sponsored by a company, this club is like an outlet of a company," he says. "It's a whole new level of using sports as a marketing vehicle."
But others argue that RB Leipzig is just what the city and surrounding region need. There has been little Bundesliga football in the former East Germany since unification in 1990.
"Football is a business that needs an enormous amount of money," says Martin Machowecz from weekly newspaper Die Zeit. "And here's someone who's come along, got involved and made sure that we've now reached the same standard as in West Germany in an area of society that's important."
What RB as a club lacks in sporting history, its home city and its stadium provide.
Lokomotive Leipzig became a household name when they beat Bordeaux in a penalty shoot-out to qualify for the final of the Uefa Cup Winners' Cup in 1987. The goalkeeper saved two penalties before stepping up to score the winner.
Gerlinde Rohr, now director of the Leipzig Sports Museum, was among the reported 110,000 in the stadium that night. "I was there with a school mate and after Rene Mueller scored his goal I jumped on the seat and we embraced each other," she remembers.
The Zentralstadion fell into disuse after unification but was given a new lease of life by the 2006 World Cup. The oval embankment of the old stadium was retained and a new stadium built inside it. It's now called the Red Bull Arena.
Many see the appointment of Ralf Rangnick as the turning point for RBL, who had spent two frustrating seasons in the fourth tier before his arrival in 2012.  As sports director and, for a brief period, trainer, he oversaw three promotions in four seasons.
Ralf Rangnick's key to success is youth.
He likes to buy players who may never previously have had a professional contract and his squad is the youngest in the Bundesliga, with an average age of a little over 23.
In his eyes, young players are hungrier for success and fit his playing philosophy.
In Leipzig they place huge emphasis on pressing the other team high up the pitch and winning the ball in the opponent's half. "Even if you're the best player in the world and you're being attacked by three players, you lose the ball," he says.
Ralf Rangnick also believes in the club's controversial ownership model. "What do you need members for? I'm more interested in the number of supporters we have," he says.
As for suggestions that Red Bull's owner Dietrich Mateschitz plays a big role in the way the club is run, the sports director says they meet and speak on the phone a handful of times every year.
But what of the complaint that RB Leipzig is merely a vehicle for selling cans of energy drinks?
"For us it is completely unimportant," he says. "It's got nothing to do with what we do."


Renowned local athletics coach Sean Kyle has died at the age 88 after a long illness.

Sean and his wife, the Olympic athlete Maeve Kyle, set up the Ballymena & Antrim club in 1955 and helped guide a host of top local athletes.
Kyle met his wife, Ireland hockey international Maeve Shankey in 1953 and within three years, under his guidance, she had become an Olympic sprinter.
Middle distance specialist Kyle coached a host of other international athletes.
Those included Mark Kirk, James McIlroy, Sean O'Neill and Eddie King.
Dame Mary Peters, who went on to achieve Olympic glory in 1972, had a stint at the Ballymena & Antrim club early in her career while both Kyles continued to coach international athletes well into their seventies with the emergence of the likes of McIlroy, Paul Brizzel, Anna Boyle and John McAdorey.
But while they nurtured many stars, their greatest contribution to the sport was the work that they did with the grassroots.
During the worst period of the Northern Ireland troubles in the early 1970s, the Kyles were instrumental in setting Top Towns meetings which saw urban centres from Northern Ireland and even a number from the southern border counties compete in team competitions.
Kyle was blessed with an enquiring and analytical mind and the duo's combined gifts led talented performers from all over Ireland and sometimes even further afield to glean athletics wisdom from the remarkable husband-and-wife team.
Athletics officials from throughout Ireland and further afield have expressed condolences to Maeve Kyle and her family following the news.
"Athletics Northern Ireland are very sorry to hear about the death of Sean Kyle, Ballymena & Antrim AC. Thoughts are with the family at this sad time," said the sport's local governing body.
A statement from Athletics Ireland said that they had learned of Kyle's death "with great sadness".


Villagers were left with their neighbours' phone numbers by bungling telephone engineers.

The mix-up happened after repair work was carried out in Cliffords Mesne, Gloucestershire, leaving dozens of residents without a connection and others with different numbers.
BT Openreach has apologised and says it is working to put things right.
Resident Rob Wadley, 73, said: "There was a lot of hilarity about it but also a serious side to it."
He said the problem - caused by a damaged cable running through "some quite dense trees" - affected the entire village of 100 houses.
"They completed [the repair] in two days and when they reconnected all the homes, everyone had someone else's number," he added.
"Some had no phones and some had someone else's number. We got a telephone call for the local town councillor. We soon found out."
Another resident, John Franklin, 65, said: "If you take our next-door neighbour, she is an elderly lady and has one of these emergency buttons. Her family use it to get in touch so it was quite serious as far as she was concerned.
"There are some people who work from the village and they were very cross. One fellow said he was losing Â£1,000 a day."
A spokeswoman for BT Openreach said: "We're sorry for the problems experienced by a handful of customers in Cliffords Mesne this week.
"The issue arose whilst we were carrying out essential maintenance to one of our overhead cables, and we're working hard to put things right as soon as possible.
"We would encourage anyone affected to contact their service provider as we are updating them regularly."


This weekend the Premiership enters the halfway stage of the 2016-17 season.

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With Northampton and Sale set to get round 11 under way on Friday, former England centre and BBC Sport pundit Jeremy Guscott gives his half-term report on how the 12 clubs have fared so far.
Who is top of the class and who needs to stay behind for extra tuition?
Sarries are in great form, top of the league having only lost two games.
Players like Billy and Mako Vunipola have really steered the club well, and a real bonus is that Alex Lozowski has stepped up at fly-half.
Sarries really like being champions, it doesn't weigh heavily on them.
Grade: A
Wasps have carried on well from last season's form. Dai Young has done a great job keeping all his players happy and performing well.
I'm looking forward to seeing the Danny Cipriani-Kurtley Beale combination and see how that goes working together.
They'll be really glad to get James Haskell back from injury in the new year, that'll help them push for honours at the end of the season.
Grade: A
Bath have had a great start to the season. A realistic expectation for me for this club would have been to finish in the top six and qualify for Europe - to be third is incredibly good.
They haven't done as well against the top opposition and that needs to change for the second half of the campaign.
They need to really sort out the George Ford situation quickly. Is he going or is he staying? They've got a top quality squad and have the ability to definitely finish in the top six.
Grade: B +
Leicester have not had it easy this first half of the season. A big loss has been Manu Tuilagi being injured for most of it and JP Pietersen not hitting the ground running form-wise.
The visit to Exeter Chiefs on Christmas Eve will be massive - win that and finishing in the top four is a reality.
Expectation is always high at Tigers, and rightly so given the resources.
Grade: B +
Jack Nowell, Luke Cowan-Dickie and Don Armand are all fit again, just in time for a big push into the second half of the season for the Chiefs.
With talent like Henry Slade, Gareth Steenson, Ollie Devoto, Sam Hill and Ian Whitten it's all about getting that midfield combination right. If Rob Baxter does that, look out.
Grade: A -
Consistency has been a problem for Harlequins. They've beaten Saracens and Bath, but have been thrashed by Wasps and lost to the likes of Newcastle and Sale.
They have some quality, stellar names, but do they have the strength in depth to make a real challenge?
Those questions need answering if Quins are to really go for glory in the second half of the season.
Currently lying sixth, if they're still there at the end of the season I think they'll be happy.
Grade: B
Newcastle Falcons are currently in seventh position in the Premiership, I never would have thought that, so well done.
Falcons are much improved from last season, especially in terms of results, partly down to a good pack including a strong back row. Mark Wilson in particular is an outsider for England.
They've got an exciting back line with Vereniki Goneva and Sinoti Sinoti out wide, but conceding points is still an issue, as is scoring them.
There is still perhaps a lack of a top-class 10 to link the pack and backline together, especially when it comes to kicking.
Grade: B +
Gloucester will have to go some to make the top six by the end of the season, despite being level on points with sixth-placed Harlequins at the moment.
Talk of a takeover could be unsettling, but hopefully it will inspire then to kick on and get better results.
They have to start winning the close games they're currently losing, if they can do that they have a chance.
Grade: C
Saints are currently ninth, not a position I would expect them to be given the quality of the squad.
Recently unsettled by the George North concussion investigation and Dylan Hartley's sending off they need to find their winning mojo quickly.
Another poor season would really put Jim Mallinder's position as head coach under the microscope.
Grade: C -
Sale always find a way to stay in the Premiership. With limited funds Steve Diamond has done a great job.
I really don't believe Sale are in any relegation danger at all.
However, after back-to-back defeats against Saracens and Exeter at the AJ Bell Stadium, they need to find the great home form of last season to push them up the table.
Grade: C
They only have one win this season and face Bristol in round 11 away from home. Lose that and it becomes a very, very long season.
They'll be looking for inspiration from Ben Te'o, their big summer signing, but he won't be able to do it all on his own.
For Worcester's survival, the whole squad have got to step up.
Grade: C
Played 10, lost 10, it doesn't look good at all for Bristol.
But a win against Worcester in round 11 could be the turning point.
The pack has struggled to compete, which makes life very difficult indeed in this league.
If they don't beat the Warriors I don't see Bristol in the Premiership next season.
Grade: C -
Jeremy Guscott was speaking to BBC Sport's Brent Pilnick.
For the latest rugby union news follow @bbcrugbyunion on Twitter.


Wheelchair or guide dog users are a common enough sight in the workplace today, but what about 200 years ago?

Research by Swansea University and the Wellcome Trust has discovered disabled people were playing equally as big a role in the coal mines of the industrial revolution in Wales.
A blind lift operator and a collier with a wooden leg are just two of the examples found by Daniel Blackie and Mike Mantin during a five-year study into disability and industrial society between 1780 and 1948.
From 20 June they will be exhibiting documents, photographs and artefacts at Swansea's Waterfront museum.
But Dr Blackie, whose research focused on the first half of the period up to 1880, said that did not necessarily mean it was a time of equal opportunities.
He said: "There's a perception that people with disabilities faced enormous social and economic exclusion during the 19th Century, but what we've found is that isn't strictly true.
"We have numerous examples of people who've experienced disabling injuries and illness playing a full part in the mines, and coming up with ingenious ways of helping themselves to adjust.
"But what you quickly realise is that these aren't all people who are choosing to work.  Some are, but many had little option but to return to work because of the financial pressure being off work put them and their families under."
Dr Blackie added that part of the reason the history of disability in the mines had not been told before was because it was "hiding in plain view".
During the 19th Century there were about 100 non-fatal accidents in Britain's mines for every fatal one, each resulting in an average loss of around 30 working days, and many leading to permanent disabilities.
"Far from being uncommon, the reason it's difficult to find written records of miners with disabilities is that it's so ubiquitous," he said.
"If you'd have pensioned off everyone who had a respiratory condition or who'd received a crush injury then there simply wouldn't have been enough workers. And because it's so common people seem to have been far less shocked, and were more used to providing support networks through friends and family."
Dr Mantin said the dawning of the 20th Century brought mixed fortunes for injured and sick men, which seem to have fluctuated with the state of the economy.
He said: "Legislation towards the end of the 19th Century made mine owners liable for accidents and entitled workers to compensation, and that seems to have made bosses less inclined to rehire men with disabilities because of the perceived risk they posed.
"But a bigger factor was the demand for coal. During the depression fewer men were required and those with disabilities were let go first, but either side of the two wars there's a sense that every man is a valuable economic commodity and is therefore worth rehabilitating."
The Miners' Welfare Commission of 1920 helped establish convalescence homes such as The Rest near Porthcawl, Bridgend county.
One in Talygarn even featured a model coalface to re-acclimatise injured men - something which Dr Mantin said was telling.
"By the end of our period there's no doubt that workers' welfare has improved immensely, but there's still a sense that what's important in rehabilitation are the needs of industry rather than the needs of the individual," he said.
"A Second World War information film called Live Again insinuates in its title that life for injured workers was not worth living without treatment and the value of work.
"Its final shot is a triumphant scene of a patient holding a safety lamp and going back into the mines as a 'useful and normal citizen', so in many ways the challenges of stigma and perception which faced disabled workers were the same then as they are now."


Tim Farron is urging people to vote tactically for the Liberal Democrats to prevent a Conservative landslide.

The Lib Dem leader launched an eve-of-poll tour of England with an "anti-hard Brexit" breakfast at a Solihull cafe that specialises in German sausage.
He said voting Lib Dem would send a "powerful message" to Theresa May that she did not have a "blank cheque".
He insists his party can double their tally of MPs to 18 on Thursday despite relatively sluggish poll ratings.
Mr Farron is campaigning for a second referendum on the terms of any Brexit deal and has said he will campaign to stay in Europe if such a vote was held.
The Lib Dem leader claimed the Conservatives could not be trusted to handle EU withdrawal negotiations.
"They can't even write a manifesto they can stand by, yet they want you to trust them with the biggest negotiations this country has ever done.
"What we need is a set of MPs after this election that will hold the government to account to prevent Theresa May taking us all for granted."
Theresa May has said she would walk away from Brexit talks rather than return from Brussels with a bad deal. She has also insisted she wants a bigger Commons majority to strengthen her hand at the negotiating table and says only the Conservatives can make a success of Brexit.
But Mr Farron is urging supporters of other parties to "lend" their vote to the Lib Dems on Thursday to prevent the landslide he claims Mrs May is seeking.
"We are saying to people in areas where you know the Liberal Democrats are the main challengers, as we seek to minimise Theresa May's majority, then backing the Liberal Democrats is a powerful way that you can send a message that she does not have a blank cheque to bring in the dementia tax, cut the police and do the damage that she is going to do to our health service."
He also criticised the Conservative leader over her announcement that she would change human rights laws if they got in the way of combating the terror threat.


If you are worried about not being able to keep up with repayments on your loans, credit cards or mortgage, there is lots of help available.

For starters, you may want to take the BBC's Financial Healthcheck. to help you identify your financial priorities and receive tips on how to tackle them.
It also outlines  how it is important to keep up to date with priority debts including housing and council tax.
The BBC's Debt Test will help you to find out how likely you are to have problems - and what to do about them.
A good place to start for help if you begin to struggle is the Citizens Advice website.
The StepChange Debt Charity can also offer solutions via its online debt counselling service Debt Remedy.
With energy costs rising, take a look at our guide to where to get help with heating bills.
Groups including the StepChange Debt Charity or the National Debtline offer free, independent advice via their websites or you can speak to one of their specialists by contacting their helplines. The National Debtline has also developed an online service called My Money Steps.
For up-to-date news and guides on debt issues, you can go to the BBC News website's dedicated section on dealing with debt.
The material is for general information only and does not constitute investment, tax, legal or other form of advice. You should not rely on this information to make (or refrain from making) any decisions. Links to external sites are for information only and do not constitute endorsement. Always obtain independent, professional advice for your own particular situation.


Poorer people in Scotland are paying more than others for essential services, according to research.

Citizens Advice Scotland (CAS) report said those on low incomes often paid above average for energy, telecoms and financial services.
Bigger bills makes their financial situation worse which further affects health and relationships, CAS said.
The "Paying More To Be Poor" report is based on research conducted by Ipsos Mori.
Researchers found that lower income Scots were more likely to use expensive pre-payment meters.
Less than a quarter of those who used the meters had switched their energy supplier in the last three years. Those living in the most deprived areas of the country were even less likely to switch suppliers, according to the report.
They were also more likely to use mobile phones on pricier pay-as-you-go plans, researchers said.
In addition, poorer people in Scotland were less likely to switch phone suppliers and more likely to be without a mobile at all - and so were hardest hit by the rise in landline costs.
Those polled were also questioned about financial services. The CAS said low income consumers would often take out credit or loans without understanding the full costs involved.
Others had no home contents insurance because they found it unaffordable.
CAS spokesman Patrick Hogan said: "Our new research today shows that many individuals' financial situations are made even worse because poverty levels limit their choices when it comes to accessing consumer services.
"So, if you are poor in Scotland today you pay more for basic services, and so become even poorer. This cannot be right, and needs to be addressed."
CAS has made a number of recommendations for addressing the problem, including raising awareness of "cost traps" and the importance of making informed choices.
Mr Hogan added: "The market must offer better value for consumers of all income levels. Poverty should not breed even more poverty."
The Scottish government said it shared the concerns about people on low incomes paying more for essential goods and services, and is taking action to tackle the issue.
A spokeswoman said: "The poverty premium was raised as an issue of particular concern by many people during our fairer Scotland discussions last year and we will be publishing our Fairer Scotland Action Plan soon which will respond to these issues."


Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders has accepted an invitation from the Pope to the Vatican.

Mr Sanders, who is Jewish, accepted an invitation to Rome for a conference at the end of next week.
The Vatican visit is four days before the primary contest in New York, a competitive battle between him and front-runner Hillary Clinton.
Mr Sanders said he was not sure whether he would meet the Pope but he was a big fan of the pontiff.
The Vermont senator said they share the same views on inequality.
"He's trying to inject this sense of morality into how we do economics... and we need that absolutely desperately."
He will attend a conference on social, economic and environmental issues and give a speech on 15 April, his campaign said.
Mr Sanders and Pope Francis have similar views on fighting income inequality, he said, and he was "very moved" by the invitation from the Vatican.
He said he and the pope disagree on women's rights and gay rights, but Pope Francis has "injected a moral consequence into the economy".
The senator from Vermont is trailing Mrs Clinton but gaining momentum after a string of wins, most recently in the Wisconsin primary.
In the last few days, a mostly civil fight between the two became more personal as Mr Sanders accused his rival of not being "qualified" to be president.
Pope Francis said on Friday that the Catholic Church should be less strict and show more compassion to "imperfect" Catholics.
He called on the Church to be welcoming to gay Catholics but did not change the Church's views on LGBT families and marriage.


A father from north London has been jailed for murdering his infant son by violently shaking him in a fit of rage.

Piotr Sobczyk, 27 of Trulock Road, was sentenced to life imprisonment at the Old Bailey.
He was told he would serve a minimum of 16 and a half years after being previously found guilty of killing six-month-old Oskar Sobczyk in January.
Det Insp Julie Willats, said: "We will never really know what happened that day" as the pair were home alone.
Speaking after sentencing she said "Only Sobczyk and his six-month-old son were inside the family home.
"But it is believed Sobczyk violently shook and assaulted Oskar in an outburst of rage, causing catastrophic injuries from which the baby had no hope of recovery."
At about 13:45 GMT on 23 January police and ambulance crews were called by Sobczyk to the family home to reports the baby was unresponsive.
He was found pale and lifeless, lying on the sofa in cardiac arrest and was eventually pronounced dead in hospital three days later.
Post-mortem tests showed he died from a head injury and also had older injuries to his left arm.


Tim Farron didn't need to introduce himself to the audience in the Liberal Democrat conference hall.

For years he has been a popular campaigner in the party, and during the years of coalition he wasn't shy of having a swipe at his colleagues who had gone into government.
But it was his first big set piece speech as the party's leader and after the Lib Dems' appalling loss at the general election, his task was not really to punch through to the general public. Let's be realistic, with the party so diminished, most voters won't be paying that much attention.
Instead it was to persuade his party that all is not lost.
On that, a passionate and well-delivered speech, peppered with anecdotes from his own childhood, hit the right notes. He tried, and in the most part succeeded, to combine his brand of Northern charm, with the heft of a serious politician.
What was harder for him was to be convincing on the second goal he wants to achieve - to present his party as the true opposition to the government, occupying the political space Labour is in the middle of abandoning under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.
This was trickier, not least because his members and colleagues know that Farron's true personal political centre is on the left of the Liberal Democrats.
No surprise then that the most passionate parts of the speech, that earned him standing ovations, were his strong criticisms of the government's position on housing, and the handling of the refugee crisis.
Both were heartfelt, strong pleas, that will prove popular with his members. But they betrayed perhaps what he'll find hard - branding himself and his party as rooted in the sensible centre, when that's several degrees to the right of his own beliefs.
And while the speech will have pleased those in the hall, there is no escaping the electoral facts. With only eight MPs left in the House of Commons, Farron faces a monumental challenge not just to get back to anything remotely approximating power, but to get a regular slice of political action.
It was not so much, "go back to your constituencies and prepare for government", David Steel's ill-fated and premature command to his party in 1981. But more like, "go back to your constituencies and prepare to put this party back together piece by piece, ward by ward, council by council".
Tim Farron has given his party the energy to start that fight, but don't be under any illusion that it will be a long, hard slog.


Fidel Castro, former Cuban president and communist revolutionary, divided opinion both at home and around the world.

Over 2.5m tweets about Castro and related trending terms have been published on Twitter.
The BBC asked people born in Cuba who have moved to other parts of the world how they felt at news of the 90-year-old leader's death.
"I was born in Cuba in January 1957, making me two years old when Castro came to power. My family and I left in February 1969.   I haven't been back.
I understand both my family's hatred for Castro, given that they lost everything, and Castro's positive impact on the poor and dispossessed.
That said, I cannot get past Castro's oppressive regime and human rights violations.
I am of mixed emotions this morning.  I can't forget that my grandparents and parents died away from their homeland, but I can't feel the euphoria that Cubans are feeling in the streets of Miami.
If Castro hadn't ruled with such an iron fist, I could look past what he did to my family and others who lost all their possessions. One side of my family was well off, the other was self-made. Both sides lost it all.
As a 60-year-old politically liberal Cuban, I feel numb."
"Both of my parents are professionals and always had good jobs, so it is not as bad as for other Cubans - at least we always have food.
As a young child I was happy and didn't even notice the 12-hour blackouts but by the age of 12, Cuba didn't look like a paradise any more.
Living in Cuba is a mix of a fairytale and a horror movie - life is complicated, hard. To understand Cuba you have to live it, cry it and fight it.
I cried when I heard about Castro's death not because I was sad or happy, but because it was a cry of freedom. Fidel represented the system of Cuba, and Cuba became Fidel.
He was a very smart man, a true leader. He had courage and knowledge, and touched people when he talked but power corrupts and that was what happened to him.
He gave power to Raul a few years ago but the system remains the same as when he ruled.
Fidel represents freedom and the fight against capitalism and consumption, but for most Cubans he represents a broken life and a lot of a pain."
"This is a solemn time. I was born the year before the triumph of the Revolution and knew no other Cuba than 1960s Cuba.
There was an energy in those times that made me believe I had the power to determine my future, and with my actions contribute to shaping a better world.
My experience through the decades has been very conflicting.  I remember the enlarged photos of Camilo [Cienfuegos], Che [Guevara], and Fidel in my grandmother's house.  They were with the Revolution, with unwavering passion and joy.
My father was wholeheartedly against Fidel.  In 1967 my parents requested visas to travel to the US as part of the Freedom Flights. My father lost his job in the textile industry and was sent to a concentration camp to work cutting sugar cane.
I worked in the fields, marched in support of the people of Vietnam and hoped that our exit permit never arrived.  Yet, I didn't belong.  Because we were leaving the country we were branded "gusanos", worms, and considered outcasts, traitors.
Being an outsider marked those years of my life.  It was as if life had come to a halt while we waited to leave.  We left on 4 August 1970 and I spent many years blaming my parents for their decision to tear me away from what I loved.
Twelve years passed before I was able to go back in 1982 at 26 years old.  I wanted to redeem myself, to belong to the Revolution.
I joined other young Cuban Americans who shared my feelings, a generation that needed to make the statement that "el exilio", exile, had been our parents' decision.
The Antonio Maceo Brigade was made up of young Cuban Americans seeking reunification.
We travelled to Cuba seeking our roots, our identity and hoping for an opening of relations between the US and Cuba.  My affiliation with the Brigade and my support of reunification made me an outcast and a persona non-grata among Cuban exiles.
Being able to return to Cuba on my own terms helped me heal many wounds and allowed me to reconcile the two parts of my life."
"I was born in Cuba in 1975. I lived there until 1998 when I left for Venezuela (before Hugo Chavez took power). Now I've settled in Miami with my family and become an American citizen.
Cuba was a country where they mix political ideology with love for your country.
At school I remember slogans pointed out that if you aren't communist, you don't love Cuba.
The country didn't let me study at university because we were trying to emigrate; I couldn't express my political views.
In the 1990s the persecution relaxed a little bit, after the fall of the Soviet Union but the one party politics never changed.
I don't feel attached to Cuba. The slogans and teaching from the communist regime took their toll on me.
Today I live happily in Miami, follow the premier league as well as the BBC, Fox and CNN. But I rarely read Spanish newspapers although Spanish is my first language."
"When we heard the news of his death this morning it felt as if a family member had died.
He did what needed to be done under the circumstances.
When trying to bring social reforms to a small island nation against the wishes of the most powerful country on the planet, you are not given too many choices when surrendering is not in your character.
He brought out the best in us. His brand of nationalism made us believe that we were as good as anybody else (he didn't bring any other nationality down), determined to resist even though we had nothing, but at the same time generous.
I remember when in every classroom in the country [we] children were donating toys for the children of Vietnam.
I am proud of Fidel."
Compiled by the UGC and Social News team


The third and final one-day international of the Women's Ashes series between England and Australia at Worcester will now take place on Monday after rain washed out Sunday's play.

The game was scheduled to start at 10:30 BST but persistent rain meant the umpires had to call off play at 13:50.
With ICC Women's Championship points as well as Women's Ashes points at stake, the match now goes into a reserve day.
Weather permitting, a full 50-over game will start at 10:30 BST on Monday.
No toss had been made or teams announced.
The series stands level at 2-2 on points, with a Test and three Twenty20 internationals to follow this game.
Rain also hampered Sunday's One-Day Cup fixture programme - with only two of the scheduled seven games starting on time.


The number of people visiting the UK's coastline is down by about a third in 10 years, a National Trust report says.

In an online survey this year, 42% of people said they visited the British coast for a day out each year - down 20 percentage points from 62% in 2005.
But the Coastal Connections Survey says the coast remains a "big contributor to quality of life and wellbeing".
The research, conducted by YouGov, was completed by 5,047 adults in England, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2015.
The report goes on to suggest that the reason for the decline in coastal visitors might be generational.
Its findings for the last 12 months include:
The areas where people are least likely to visit the coast from are the Midlands (37%), London (33%), Manchester (36%), Sheffield (41%) and Nottingham (44%).
The biggest barrier stopping people from visiting coastal areas, the report says, is not having enough spare time - a reason given by 29% of people.
Other barriers are UK coasts being too busy when the weather is nice (23%), too expensive (18%), not having easy access to transport (17%) and preferring to go abroad than holiday in Britain (14%).
Of those who do go, 64% say they take their loved ones to generate "happy memories", while 61% say visiting the coast or seaside is important to having a good quality of life.
Kate Martin, the National Trust area ranger at Formby, Merseyside, told BBC Radio 5 live she had noticed a decline in tourism in that part of the country over the last 10 years.
She said: "Ten years ago we were seeing around 450,000 people visit a year. I'd say that has dropped to about 250-300,000.
"It does seem to be a generational thing and that partly has come with the rise of cheap package holidays."
This year is the 50th anniversary of the Trust's Neptune Coastline Campaign - one of the longest running environmental campaigns in western Europe.
This has resulted in the charity managing 775 miles of coast in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, equating to over 10% of the UK's coastline.
The Trust is now asking the public to help poet Dr John Cooper Clarke complete a specially commissioned poem, using the Twitter hashtag #lovethecoast.
Correction 14 August 2015: This story has been amended to clarify that the decline in visitor numbers between 2005-15 - from 62% to 42% of respondents - equates to a third or 20 percentage points, not 20% as previously stated.


Plans have been unveiled to turn historical buildings in a Nottinghamshire town into a national centre for the civil war.

Newark and Sherwood District Council wants to restore Newark's old Magnus buildings into a museum incorporating an English Civil War gallery.
The council has applied to the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) for a £2.8m grant to support the £4.43m project.
The oldest parts of the buildings date to 1529.
The 1646 siege in royalist Newark, during the civil war, led to the final demise of King Charles I, and the start of English democracy.
The council wants people to join a steering group to help shape the plans.
The museum would house other collections from the district, including the Newark Torc which was bought by the council for £350,000.
The ancient Celtic gold necklace dates to 250 BC and was found by an amateur treasure hunter near Newark in 2005.


Virgin Media has suspended four members of staff and begun an investigation after it admitted overstating the expansion of its superfast broadband network, dubbed Project Lightning.

According to parent company Liberty Global, Virgin Media originally said it had connected 465,000 new premises in the UK and Ireland in 2016.
But following a review, that number has been revised down to 314,000.
Liberty said Virgin had exaggerated how fast it could complete the connections.
In a regulatory filing, the US company explained that - under Virgin's own reporting standards - the figures included premises where installation work was "essentially complete" but not actually finished.
That included 142,000 sites that had been expected to be connected during the first three months of 2017.
However, Liberty said that in late February 2017, it had discovered that "the construction work necessary to connect a substantial number of [these premises] had not progressed as originally understood".
This prompted it to carry out a review, in which it found "the completion status" of some premises had been "misrepresented".
Liberty also said Virgin Media had "inadvertently" classified a further 9,000 unfinished premises as connected, when they had not been.
Dan Howdle, a consumer telecoms analyst at Cable.co.uk, told the BBC: "Clearly the way in which the numbers had been reported failed to preclude the possibility of jumping the gun, though there is no evidence an intent to mislead lay behind it."
He added: "Virgin Media appears to be dealing with the issue decisively, though mistakes resulting in stories of this nature are unlikely to leave a brand completely unscathed."
Four Virgin Media employees have been suspended in connection with Liberty's investigation and could face disciplinary action "including dismissal".
The company said the setback would affect the total number of premises Virgin Media connected during the first half of 2017.
However, it said it had taken steps to speed up Project Lightning, including appointing a new managing director, Robert Evans, to lead the scheme.
It also said Virgin would no longer include uncompleted connections in its figures.
Launched in 2015, Virgin's Project Lightning is designed to connect about four million more UK homes and businesses to broadband speeds of 300Mbs.
By the end of December it had reached 567,000 premises in total - down from the 718,000 previously reported.


The consortium of international companies that owns and manages Dounreay Site Restoration Limited (DSRL) is changing its name.

From next week Babcock Dounreay Partnership will be called Cavendish Dounreay Partnership.
The consortium is overseeing DSRL's work decommissioning Dounreay, an experimental nuclear power complex on the north Caithness coast.
The site's original buildings such as its dome are to be demolished by 2025.
The rebranding follows the decision of Babcock International Group, which has a 50% stake in the parent body organisation, to call its civil nuclear business unit Cavendish Nuclear.
The other partners in the consortium, CH2MHILL and URS, as well as the rest of Babcock International Group, are unaffected by the change.


Kasabian lead the nominations for the 2015 NME Awards having been named in eight categories including best British band and best live band.

The band's nominations also include best track for Eez-eh and music moment of the year for their headline set at Glastonbury.
Royal Blood and Jamie T are both up for seven awards each.
The shortlists have been decided by NME readers, with the awards taking place on 18 February at 02 Academy Brixton.
Brighton rock duo Royal Blood are up for best British band and best live band, while Jamie T is up for best solo artist and best fan community.
Arctic Monkeys, Kasabian, Royal Blood, and The Libertines will fight it out for two of the night's biggest awards, having all been named in both the best British band and best live band categories.
Kasabian said: "2014 has been such an incredible year for us, and being nominated for eight NME Awards is a better Christmas present than getting Castle Greyskull in 1986! Thanks very much."
Alt-J and Chvrches are also up for best British band while Fat White Family and Foo Fighters are among the best live band nominees.
The best album category will be fought out between Jamie T, Kasabian, Royal Blood, La Roux, Run The Jewels and St Vincent, with this year's worst band award being between 5 seconds of summer, One Direction, U2, Bastille, Blink-182 and The 1975.
This year's villain of the year category includes Taylor Swift, Russell Brand, Bono, Nigel Farage, David Cameron and Harry Styles who has been nominated for the award for the third year in a row.
Online voting for the awards, which is open now, closes on 16 January.
NME Awards 2015 with Austin, Texas nominations as follows:
Best British band
Alt-J
Arctic Monkeys
Chvrches
Kasabian
Royal Blood
The Libertines
Best album
Jamie T - Carry On The Grudge
Kasabian - 48:13
La Roux - Trouble In Paradise
Royal Blood - Royal Blood
Run The Jewels - Run The Jewels 2
St Vincent - St Vincent
Best international band
Arcade Fire
Foo Fighters
Haim
Interpol
Queens Of The Stone Age
Tame Impala
Best live band
Arctic Monkeys
Fat White Family
Foo Fighters
Kasabian
Royal Blood
The Libertines
Best new band
Circa Waves
FKA Twigs
Jungle
Royal Blood
Slaves
Superfood
Best solo artist
Jack White
Jake Bugg
Jamie T
La Roux
Lana Del Rey
St Vincent
Best festival
Bestival
Glastonbury
Isle Of Wight
Latitude
Reading & Leeds
T In The Park
Best track supported by Tito's Handmade Vodka
Future Islands - Seasons (Waiting On You)
Jamie T - Zombie
Jungle - Busy Earnin'
Kasabian - Eez-Eh
Noel Gallagher - In The Heat Of The Moment
Royal Blood - Little Monster
Best video
Fat White Family - Touch The Leather
FKA Twigs - Two Weeks
Jamie T - Zombie
Jungle - Busy Earnin'
Peace - Lost On Me
Royal Blood - Figure It Out
Best music film
Nick Cave, 20,000 Days On Earth
Finding Fela
Kasabian, Summer Solstice
Pulp: A Film About Life, Death And Supermarkets
Supermensch: The Legend Of Shep Gordon
Edwyn Collins, The Possibilities Are Endless
Best film
Boyhood
Frank
Get On Up
God Help The Girl
The Inbetweeners 2
Northern Soul
Best TV show
Girls
Game Of Thrones
Foo Fighters: Sonic Highways
Peaky Blinders
Sherlock
True Detective
Dance floor filler
Iggy Azalea feat. Charli XCX, 'Fancy'
Jamie T, 'Zombie'
Kasabian, 'Eez-Eh'
Mark Ronson & Bruno Mars, 'Uptown Funk'
Metronomy, 'Love Letters'
SBTRKT feat. Ezra Koenig, 'New Dorp. New York'
Worst band
5 Seconds Of Summer
Bastille
Blink-182
One Direction
The 1975
U2
Villain of the year
Bono
David Cameron
Harry Styles
Nigel Farage
Russell Brand
Taylor Swift
Hero of the year
Alex Turner
Dave Grohl
Kate Bush
Noel Gallagher
Russell Brand
Taylor Swift
Music moment of the year
Alex Turner's Brit Awards speech
Jamie T's comeback
Kasabian headline Glastonbury
Kate Bush returns
The Libertines reunite
Nirvana reunite at The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame
Best fan community
Jamie T
Kasabian
La Roux
Muse
Peace
Royal Blood
Small festival of the year
End Of The Road
Festival Number 6
Field Day
Liverpool Psych Fest
The Great Escape
Tramlines
Book of the year
Bernard Sumner, Chapter And Verse
Ian Curtis, Deborah Curtis and Jon Savage, So This Is Permanence
Jesse Frohman, Kurt Cobain: The Last Session
John Lydon, Anger Is An Energy: My Life Uncensored
Viv Albertine, Clothes, Clothes, Clothes. Music, Music, Music. Boys, Boys, Boys
Steve Hanley, The Big Midweek: Life Inside The Fall
Reissue of the year
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
Manic Street Preachers - The Holy Bible
Oasis - Definitely Maybe
Pixies - Doolittle
Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back
Smashing Pumpkins - Adore
Best band blog or Twitter
Questlove's Twitter
Alana Haim's Twitter
Albert Hammond Jr's Twitter
Fat White Family's Facebook
Liam Gallagher's Twitter
Slaves' Facebook
Follow @BBCNewsbeat on Twitter and Radio1Newsbeat on YouTube


Wales' Mark Williams is through to the third round of the Welsh Open after a 4-2 win over England's Rod Lawler.

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Williams' fellow Welshman Ryan Day is also through after a 4-2 win over England's Mike Dunn.
Williams, 40, will play Norway's Kurt Maflin, who beat Ireland's Leo Fernandez 4-1.
Earlier, home hope Matthew Stevens beat England's Martin O'Donnell 4-2, while Michael White beat Tom Ford 4-3.
However, Daniel Wells went down 4-1 to Hong Kong's Marco Fu.
Two-time world champion Williams, Wales' top-ranked player at 13th, was the last home winner back in 1999.
Meanwhile world number one Ronnie O'Sullivan defended opting for a 146 instead of 147 break in his opening-round win against Barry Pinches.


The chief executive of Trinity Mirror has said his company plays an "important role" in covering local news in Wales.

Simon Fox's comments come as the publisher announced a 24% rise in annual profit in the face of declining print circulation here.
Trinity Mirror publishes the Western Mail, Daily Post and Wales Online.
Mr Fox told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the company was focussing on its growing online audience.
He said: "Our digital audiences in the regions are bigger than they've ever been.
"And I think that's because there are less and less journalists covering local councils, and local schools, and local police forces.
"And so, unlike national and international news that is being widely covered, there's a really important role for us in the regions."
When asked about the company's decision to close four local papers in the English regions last October, Mr Fox did not rule out further closures.
He said: "Yes we did [close them], and we will close titles - largely free titles - and it may be that more and more of our news is available on mobile sites and websites."


Nasa has sent ants into space to see if they behave in the same way as they do on Earth.

The American space agency hope the experiment will help with robot design in the future.
They sent the creatures to the International Space Station to see how they get on in zero gravity.
Scientists say they managed to steady themselves very quickly after floating around and even grabbed onto each other for help.
The research suggests that the insects use teamwork to search and explore, in a similar way to ants back on Earth.
They tried their best to search and explore, working in a team, but weren't able to do as much as they do on Earth.
But the experiment wasn't just about looking at how ants behave.
Scientists hope that studying the way the ants ants moved around and work together in space will help in designing groups of robots to operate on the International Space Station in the future.


It was the season in which Chelsea played by their own record book.

The Blues topped the table while, at the other end, Sunderland could not escape the drop after 110 straight days at the bottom.
Records tumbled through to the last day of the campaign, when we saw 33 goalscorers, more than ever before in a single day of a 38-game season.
Goals scored from outside the penalty area fell to a Premier League low of 11.6% so, if you like a goalmouth scramble, this was your year.
From the moment Prime Minister Theresa May called a snap General Election on 18 April, the title was as good as Chelsea's.
The London club have won the title the past four times - 2005, 2010, 2015 and 2017 - the country has been asked to elect a government.
They did so in style, with their 30 wins beating the Premier League record of 29, which the Blues also set in 2004-05 and 2005-06.
As the graphic above shows, Antonio Conte would do well to hold on to Diego Costa as his goals won more points than anyone else in the league. The striker has been linked with a move to China, but why would he want to leave London?
The city is home to the best and second-best sides in the league for just the third time in English top-flight history.
For all their free-flowing attacking play, for all Dele Alli's quality and Christian Eriksen's guile, Tottenham didn't spend a single day on top of the table in 2016-17. That's less than relegated Hull City who spent 24 hours at the summit on the opening weekend.
Incredibly, Spurs had four players who were involved in 20 or more league goals this season. No other side had two players who could boast of such a contribution.
So many troops chipping in helped Mauricio Pochettino's side to a goal difference of +60, a record for any side who did not win the title.
What would they have mustered had Harry Kane not missed eight games in the league? His mark of five hat-tricks in the season puts him among stellar company, as only Real Madrid's Cristiano Ronaldo can match the mark in any of Europe's top five leagues.
Manchester United's season saw manager Jose Mourinho criticise Luke Shaw, take an age to utilise Henrikh Mkhitaryan and lament the workings of the fixture computer.
It led to him making more changes to his starting line-up - 120 - than any other manager and he finished outside the top three for the first time in his managerial career.
The Red Devils never finished a Premier League season lower than third under Sir Alex Ferguson but have now done so in each of the four seasons since he left.
And those famous Manchester United v Arsenal battles for titles in recent memory now look further away than ever, with the pair outside the top four as a duo for the first time since 1979.
The Gunners - fifth - can feel a little hard done by as their mark of 75 points is a record for any side finishing outside the top four in the Premier League era.
United still have the Europa League final to contest, of course, and would qualify for the Champions League with victory over Ajax on Wednesday. Mourinho could point to his use of youth as a positive for the campaign, as the side deployed for their final league game against Crystal Palace was their youngest Premier League XI - with an average age of 22 years and 284 days.
Forward Angel Gomes became the first player born in the year 2000 to feature in the Premier League in the process, making a generation of football fans feel old.
The 16-year-old is younger than David Beckham's oldest son Brooklyn and young enough to have never seen Glenn Hoddle manage the England side.
Sophie Ellis-Bextor topped the charts with her hit 'Groovejet (If This Ain't Love)' on the day Gomes was born in August 2000.
Spurs can boast the youngest average starting XI in the league at 25 years and 298 days, ahead of manager Mauricio Pochettino's former club Southampton (26 years and 169 days).
Bournemouth, though, may well be England boss Gareth Southgate's favourite side as 11 different English players made 20 or more appearances for the Cherries. No club has hit this mark since Aston Villa in 2000-01.
Pep Guardiola's failure to muster a title challenge in his debut Premier League season was surprising but there are signs things are coming together.
In securing a seventh straight top-four finish - the longest streak in the league now - City managed 12 away wins. That is their joint-most since 2001-02, and they can also draw comfort from the fact Sergio Aguero is somehow getting better.
Never before has he scored 33 goals in a season for the club, and the Argentina international only started 25 league games. He also now appears to have an able deputy in Gabriel Jesus who scored seven goals and made four in just eight league games.
Kevin de Bruyne also served up a league-high 18 assists, further evidence there is much to like at City, despite the lack of title.
There are those players you just know your club must keep. Relegated Sunderland will do well to do that with Jermain Defoe - who scored over half of their goals this season - while Everton may feel the heat of interest in Romelu Lukaku, scorer of 40% of their goals.
But when a season ends you also instantly mull over what your team needs in order to be better when August comes.
If it's a midfielder to keep play moving you're looking for, Middlesbrough's Adam Forshaw could offer up a bargain. Of all the midfielders to play at least 25 games, his pass-completion rate of 88.3% is only bettered by some big names.
If your team needs a tackle master, tempting Idrissa Gueye away from Everton may be money well spent as he won 100 tackles in 33 league outings, comfortably clear of Southampton's Oriel Romeu on 87 in second.
And when it comes to taking chances, Fernando Llorente's name is up in lights. For all those players to play 25 league games, no-one made more of their shots. His haul of 15 goals from 52 shots gives him a 28.9% goals-to-shots ratio.
Many of you may well be sad to see the end of the season arrive.
Sunderland fans, though, could be forgiven for throwing a street party to wave 2016-17 goodbye. Chelsea's joy was perfectly contrasted by months at the bottom for the Black Cats. Their yearly Houdini escapes have become part of Premier League folklore. Alas, finally, they fell short.


French nuclear giant Areva was solely responsible for a controversial $320m (Â£250m) uranium deal, a parliamentary investigation in Niger has said.

The 2011 deal, known as "uranium-gate", involved companies in Niger and abroad. Activists have begun legal proceedings.
It caused an uproar after a local paper said it had served as cover for officials to embezzle public funds.
The report did not find any evidence of wrongdoing by any officials. Areva says it cannot comment on the report.
The French company says it has not yet received the report. It has previously said it was co-operating with a French investigation into the case.
Niger is one of the world's biggest uranium producers and the metal is the country's largest export.
Opposition parties say the report has been botched and lacks integrity.
They say that two of their lawmakers who were part of the group which led the inquiry were not associated in drafting the document.
Last month, activists in Niger started legal action into the deal, saying they feared the parliamentary investigation would lead to a whitewash.
Their complaint alleges embezzlement of public funds, money laundering, forgery and conspiracy to defraud.
According to the parliamentary inquiry: "A transaction took place indeed between Sopamin [a local mining company], Areva and other international partners."
"The uranium used in that transaction is not uranium from Niger. The money transferred to [a bank account] in Dubai to fund the transaction is neither money of the state of Niger nor of Sopamin - it is Areva's money."
The on-going legal action centres on the allegation that Areva in 2011 bought a stock of uranium from Niger at a discounted price, causing the national treasury to lose money.
Areva used the transaction to provide funds requested by Niger to secure uranium sites in the north against militant attacks, the report said.
Niger's uranium mines are located in the Sahel region south of the Sahara Desert, an area where Islamist groups such as a local branch of al-Qaeda are active.
The report said that Finance Minister Hassoumi Massoudou had been involved as a mandated "representative" of Sopamin to facilitate the transfer of the requested funds.
He has previously denied any wrongdoing.
A separate French enquiry has been looking into the "uranium-gate" allegations as part of a wider investigation into Areva's business dealings.
A spokesperson for the nuclear giant told the BBC the company maintains that the 2011 transaction was a "trading operation".
"We have not seen the report and cannot comment on it," the spokesperson added.
Niger has two significant uranium mines that provide 7.5% of the world mining output from Africa's highest-grade uranium ores, according to the World Nuclear Association, the international organisation that represents the global nuclear industry.
Niger's first commercial uranium mine began operating in 1971, with a strong government support for expanding uranium mining.


Liverpool FC has banned The Sun journalists from its grounds over the newspaper's coverage of the Hillsborough disaster.

The newspaper has been widely boycotted in the city following a campaign by the Total Eclipse of The S*n group.
Its journalists will no longer be allowed on site to cover matches and press conferences.
The Sun said the move was "bad for fans and bad for football". The club declined to comment.
The Total Eclipse of The S*n group tweeted: "Further to conversations with LFC directors we are happy to inform you that Sun journalists [will] no longer enjoy access to club premises."
A spokesman for the paper said it "deeply regrets" its reporting and understands the damage caused was still felt by many in the city.
"The Sun and Liverpool FC have had a solid working relationship for the 28 years since the Hillsborough tragedy.
"Whilst we can't undo the damage done, we would like to further a dialogue with the city and to show that the paper has respect for the people of Liverpool.
"Banning journalists from a club is bad for fans and bad for football."


An investigation has been launched after a body was found in a Swansea city centre car park.

Officers were called to Northampton Lane at about 11:15 GMT on Sunday.
South Wales Police said a woman's body was found in a white car and the death was being treated as unexplained.
Anyone with information has been asked to call 101.


The BBC is making more than 7,000 hours of TV available to buy from its archives, including current shows and "lost gems", from the new BBC Store.

The digital service, which launched on Thursday, allows the public to buy and keep more than 60 years of BBC shows.
Shows will typically cost Â£1.89 an episode and can be downloaded through bbcstore.com and iPlayer.
Billed as the most comprehensive collection of BBC programmes published, it includes some banned programmes.
Among them, the 1976 Dennis Potter drama Brimstone and Treacle and the War Game, a 1965 depiction of the impact of a nuclear war in Britain.
Cult comedies such as Morecambe & Wise and Dad's Army will be available to buy digitally for the first time, as well as the legendary David Frost interviews.
In addition, popular dramas such as EastEnders and Holby City can be bought from the site just a day after transmission.
Exclusive content released to mark the launch includes Matt LeBlanc fronting a series of Top Gear clips in Top Gear: The Races, bringing together memorable moments from the show's racing archive, and a Best Of collection from the popular car show.
"It's a fabulous new service for the BBC that makes it easy to browse, buy and download some of your favourite BBC programmes ever... in much the same way as previously you owned them on DVD," said Marcus Arthur of BBC Worldwide.
Prices will be clearly marked on the site and are described as "broadly competitive", with series typically costing Â£6.99.
Mr Arthur told Newsbeat he hoped, over time, to offer "value added material" to shows, that can be purchased as part of the episode or as an optional extra.
At present the focus of the archive is on drama, comedy and factual entertainment - including a collection featuring some of Sir David Attenborough's most memorable documentaries - but in time, the BBC hopes to extend the service to include more content for children and more music programming.
Children's classic Muffin the Mule is currently the oldest piece of content available. There will also an "of its time" section to include content that might no longer be considered appropriate for broadcast.
The BBC said consumers will still be able to access its shows through subscription services such as Netflix, and the BBC iPlayer would continue to offer a free catch-up service for 30 days after shows have aired.


Manchester City's Fernandinho has had his appeal for wrongful dismissal rejected by the Football Association.

The midfielder, 31, was sent off for a two-footed challenge on Burnley's Johann Berg Gudmundsson on 2 January - his third red card of the season.
His four-match ban will begin with immediate effect.
The Brazilian will miss Friday's FA Cup third-round match with West Ham, followed by league games against Everton, Tottenham and West Ham.


On Wednesday, four of the world's largest banks - JP Morgan, Barclays, Citigroup and Royal Bank of Scotland - pleaded guilty to criminal charges in the US relating to the rigging of currency markets.

The four, and Switzerland's UBS, which pleaded guilty to a different charge, agreed to pay $5.7bn (Â£3.6bn) in fines.
It is rare for a company to be found guilty of criminal behaviour. For some bank watchers this move represents a problem for regulators: aside from more fines, little else has changed, and they may have just played their best card.
Two years ago, the then US Attorney General Eric Holder opined that criminal charges against large banks could threaten the global economy. But now?
"Now it's a non-event. We have trivialised the criminal penalties, so I don't know what's left," says Cornelius Hurley, director of the Boston University Centre for Finance, Law & Policy.
"It used to be that the fear of a criminal penalty was you might lose your banking licence. That it would be a death knell. That's been removed - nobody has lost their licence," he adds. "Somehow there has to be a fear factor."
Getting banks that have admitted criminal behaviour to change their ways is now a task for their clients, who may want to review who changes money for them, he says.
"Why continue doing business with a bank that's just pleaded guilty to a crime and tried to screw you?"
While a larger punishment than a criminal penalty is difficult to conceive of, there are other tricks up the sleeves of the authorities.
For Prof Simon Johnson, of the MIT Sloan School of Management and previously chief economist at the IMF, the next step regulators could take is an anti-competition probe.
"The key thing here is market power," he says. "The people fixing foreign exchange called themselves 'the cartel'. Cartels only operate when there's a relatively small number of players, so I think that there are major anti-trust issues here.
"The banks claim there were only a few rogue individuals but the rogue individuals only had the ability to do it because there is implicit market power in the concentration of the foreign exchange market."
Outside of finance the usual remedy is breaking a company up, says Prof Johnson. Regulators may be worried about the impact of breaking up banks, but there is historical precedent, he adds.
"With the breakup of Standard Oil in the early 20th century; there were plenty of complaints about pricing power, so it was broken up and the market became a lot more competitive."
Standard's 33 constituent companies went on to be very profitable and made John D Rockefeller the richest man in the world.
"It was good for the country and good for the shareholders and that's how I would see what would happen with the big banks," says Prof Johnson.
Holding regulators back could be the financial success they are enjoying with their current model.
"Whether anything has been achieved other than subsidising the US government is open to question," says Mike Koehler, expert on anti-corruption law at Southern Illinois University.
"They have great difficulty in proving criminal charges against individuals, but they can extract multibillion dollar settlements against companies."
But that is something they should be looking to do, says Prof Johnson. "I think the most important thing is criminal prosecution where you prosecute individuals."
His view is shared by Prof Anat Admati of Stanford Graduate School of Business and author of the book The Bankers' New Clothes.
"How can we be assured that this behaviour won't repeat? Criminal sanctions sometimes means people go to jail, but that cannot happen for a corporation, so we must wonder about the deterrent effect of the punishment," she says.
"It would be important to go for the top of the corporation, similar to how Bob Diamond at Barclays in the UK was forced out when the Libor scandal broke out in 2012.
"There was pervasive manipulation. And who at the top knew or should have known and put in the controls to prevent it?"
"I would hope they go up the chain higher up these organisations - for me that's the key. If managers claim they didn't know what's going on in their banks that should not be an appropriate defence," she says.
For the banks, the next thing to think about is the civil lawsuits clients are already filing, says Boston University's Prof Hurley.
It is difficult to prove whether clients lost out or gained on currency transactions, but once a company has agreed it's guilty of criminal behaviour, the hardest part is over, he says.
"If you already have a guilty plea, the rest becomes a whole lot easier."
"Coming up with a number is difficult but you hire forensic experts," he says. "You determine responsibility first and damages second. Responsibility is usually the hard part.
"Just because you can't prove the number doesn't mean it goes away," he says. An agreement could be made, just as an agreement is made in any other legal action for damages such as wrongful dismissal, he adds.
In the meantime, admission of crime will be a difficult thing for banks to wear, says Prof Hurley.
"Banking is built on trust. Take away the trust you have virtually nothing left. To be criminal and say trust me - it's very difficult to get the words out."
Source: CCP Research Foundation's Conduct Cost Project
*2014 figures are provisional only


Lewis Hamilton dominated the Australian Grand Prix to get his world title defence off to the perfect start.

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He drove a measured race, controlling the gap to his Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg throughout as the team left the rest of the field behind.
Ferrari's improved form was confirmed as new signing Sebastian Vettel took third, beating Williams's Felipe Massa.
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Jenson Button achieved his aim of finishing in the slow and unreliable McLaren-Honda but was 11th and last.
The season started in dramatic style as the field lost three cars cars even before the start, in front of a capacity crowd in Albert Park under blue Melbourne skies, the warm sunshine tempered by a cool, strong and blustery wind.
Williams's Valtteri Bottas was ordered not to race by the official doctor after suffering an injured disc in his back in qualifying and spending the night in hospital.
McLaren-Honda's poor reliability struck Kevin Magnussen as he headed around to take his place on the grid, the Dane stopping in a cloud of blue smoke between Turns Five and Six.
Red Bull also lost a car before the start, Daniil Kvyat stopping shortly afterwards, just failing to make it around to the pits after hitting gearbox trouble.
With the absence of the Manor Marussia team, who did not run at all throughout the weekend, that meant just 15 cars took the start.
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And another was lost within a few hundred metres, as Lotus's Pastor Maldonado was tagged by Felipe Nasr's Sauber at the first corner and spun into the barriers, bringing out the safety car.
When the race finally started, the excitement ebbed away as Hamilton quickly built a lead and then controlled his pace until the first stops, holding it at about two seconds.
It was the same story after their pit stops, Hamilton allowing an initial 4.6-second lead to reduce to the region of two seconds and holding it there.
Movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger presented the trophies and did the podium interviews, Hamilton telling him: "My team did an amazing job today and it's an incredible feeling to win and also to be here with you, man. I thought you were taller!"
Rosberg said: "I was trying every lap to my maximum and I will do all year. I will give him a big run for his money and hopefully beat him."
Mercedes were in a race of their own at the front and behind them Ferrari managed to get Vettel into third ahead of Massa with clever strategy.
Massa was caught behind Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo on his first lap after his pit stop and Vettel was ahead when he emerged from his own tyre change two laps later.
The second Ferrari of Kimi Raikkonen, the only leading driver to make two pit stops, dropped back after a slow first stop caused by a problem fitting his left rear.
Raikkonen was planning to challenge Massa after his second stop but after another problem with the same wheel he was sent on his way without it being properly fitted and was forced to pull off just four corners after rejoining.
There will be a post mortem at Ferrari after Raikkonen suffered similar problems at both stops and the team face punishment from the FIA for an unsafe release.
The Finn's retirement promoted Sauber's Felipe Nasr to an impressive fifth place on his debut, to give the struggling Swiss team their first points for more than a year.
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The Brazilian held off Ricciardo on a poor weekend for Red Bull, who were only slightly faster than their junior team Toro Rosso.
Novice Carlos Sainz was running strongly in seventh early in the race, just behind Ricciardo, but dropped to the back after a slow pit stop.
Sainz fought back to run eighth in the closing laps, behind Force India's Nico Hulkenberg, but was passed by Sauber's Marcus Ericsson with two laps to go.
Force India's Sergio Perez took the final point, despite a spin when fighting with Button early in the race.
Button languished more than 20 seconds behind the Mexican, lapping more than two seconds off the pace of the next slowest car, but just managed to nurse the car to the flag despite a gearbox problem.
The second Toro Rosso of Max Verstappen, the youngest driver in F1 history, had been promoted to sixth when he retired shortly after half distance.
Australian GP full results
Australian GP coverage details